Drugs in other sports

[BJH]

Well he has said that more recently...

http://www1.skysports.com/tennis/ne...doping-controls-in-tennis-have-to-be-improved
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/tennis/murray-lets-flush-out-the-drug-cheats.19282031



I have a lot of concerns about Tennis, but I don't see that his body has built up particularly fast. Most full-time athletes should be able to build that amount of muscle at that age with a dedicated fitness trainer helping them. If he is doping, then he's not doing it very well, as I thought he looked tired throughout the Australian open final, breathing very heavily after only one set, as if he had not recovered from his semi-final.

Djokovic on the other hand seemed to recover superbly after a much longer match against Wawrinka.

Sadly his dedicated fitness instructors appear to have track records. So yes I have doubts.

 

[BJH]

Unfortunately I am one of those who once believed Lance Armstrong was a great bike racer, so I ain't going to argue.. I just hope you are wrong.

I would love to be wrong too

 

[Crackle]

That's fair enough but the point of my earlier post wasn't actually to speculate on Pistorius but to remark that Paralympic sports may well be one of the "other sports" where doping is currently occurring and that this would have been an area I had naively overlooked. Apologies if this wasn't clear... !
Edit, that and to find a place to make a weak pun on Pistorius' surname ;-)

I took an interest in Pistorius after a few articles I read on the Science of Sport blog, which paint a slightly different picture of his motivations and of him.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/12/science-of-sport-awards-controversy-of.html

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/09/oscar-pistorius-counting-strides-as.html

His sponsors include Nike, Oakley, BT and many others, worth a fair amount or they did anyway.

Of course you can conclude nothing from that, other than the stakes for being a top sportsperson are high, whether you're a paralympian or otherwise, why should the temptations at that level be any different.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Of course you can conclude nothing from that, other than the stakes for being a top sportsperson are high, whether you're a paralympian or otherwise, why should the temptations at that level be any different.

I have no doubt of that.

 

[beastie]

I would love to be wrong too

Sadly his dedicated fitness instructors appear to have track records. So yes I have doubts.

Who are they?

 

[Cycleops]

Said it before, wherever there is big money, there is incentive for some to use any means to get at it.
Cycling may be an easy target for WADA, but a look through the UKADA statistics as an example, makes for interesting reading. It's just that a lot of governing bodies don't like their dopers exposed. Image of their sport and all that.

It's true, there is so much to gain financially now in sport you will always get someone who manages to beat the system like LA did. We have seen going back many decades now and will continue well into the future. Let them all take drugs at least you will have a level playing field! Sport is now so devalued and the participants so overpaid I for one am just fed up with it all.

 

[Cycleops]

a lot of people seem or want to blame professionalism, the sponsers, the big money on why people cheat or take drugs in sport, cheating has been prevalent since the very inception of competitive games, people cheat for the glory, the accolades, the money is a bonus.... would lance armstrong have cheated if there was no money to be made from the tour de france, too right he would....
people wonder why would a domestique would cheat when no chance of personal glory, so it must be the money, to us he's a domestique but to him, he's a champion, waiting for his chance... of course there comes a time when most realise the glory days are gone, then the money becomes the goal...
I've seen cheating (drugs) in sunday morning football, amatuer boxing, local running club.. these were solely for personal glory, when cheating is here, then what do people really expect from the professional sports..

I am not too sure you are right about the money not being motivation enough, but thats by the way. So given that personal glory and mass adulation is the spur what do you suggest? Do we let them just get on with it? You are offering any solutions in the light of what you have said.

 

[Crackle]

It's true, there is so much to gain financially now in sport you will always get someone who manages to beat the system like LA did. We have seen going back many decades now and will continue well into the future. Let them all take drugs at least you will have a level playing field! Sport is now so devalued and the participants so overpaid I for one am just fed up with it all.

I've seen you say this a few times. It simply isn't true nor is it desirable on any level.

a lot of people seem or want to blame professionalism, the sponsers, the big money on why people cheat or take drugs in sport, cheating has been prevalent since the very inception of competitive games, people cheat for the glory, the accolades, the money is a bonus.... would lance armstrong have cheated if there was no money to be made from the tour de france, too right he would....
people wonder why would a domestique would cheat when no chance of personal glory, so it must be the money, to us he's a domestique but to him, he's a champion, waiting for his chance... of course there comes a time when most realise the glory days are gone, then the money becomes the goal...
I've seen cheating (drugs) in sunday morning football, amatuer boxing, local running club.. these were solely for personal glory, when cheating is here, then what do people really expect from the professional sports..

I don't think anyone is denying it, what we want is to get rid of it, especially at the top level. Reasons for this are multitude but you can perm any analogy from a multitude as to why people who do things which are morally wrong, let alone against the law or a set of rules, should not be allowed to think that what they do is acceptable, would you argue otherwise?

re-read Bassons interview if you want to think about what might constitute fair play and how we might get there.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/christophe-bassons-where-the-war-on-drugs-is-going-wrong

 

[thom]

I've seen you say this a few times. It simply isn't true nor is it desirable on any level.

What's more, if anyone wants to debate that notion seriously, they should start a separate thread on it and then people can chose to either debate it or ignore it. Put in a poll too. It might actually go down quite well in the Current Affairs and Debates forum.

 

[Crackle]

I don't thinks it's acceptable but to a degree I do accept it as part of sport, as I accept cheating of all sorts in everyday life, I don't like it but I don't let it overly cause me great concern.
the question on whats morally right or wrong, I'd need to at the laptop and not on my tablet to even try and answer
I didn't like bassons article it was too anti media and self serving and talked some rubbish about sport being more than about winning and how america was moving in the right direction because they've gave him some award, utter nonsence

I suppose the only word I'd change is acceptance to acknowledge. And I'd distinguish gamesmanship, as it was once called, maybe still is, from cheating, unlike Bassons who makes no distinction but perhaps he's right, it's a slippery slope.

 

[Strathlubnaig]

Golf - http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news00/golfdrugs.html Apparently its the beta blockers doing the rounds "to calm them down" ..... ffs, golf is so laid back any calmer they would fall asleep.
edit - quote "Grady said he had never been drug-tested in more than 20 years as a professional "and I've never known anyone who has.''

 

[BJH]

Who are they?

Take a look at Tennis Has A Steroid problem via Google - lots of similar questioning to this site.

During the period when Murray went from bean pole to developing muscles ( bigger than his brother isn't he?) he chose to use the man credited with turning around the career of Andre Agassi.

Bad choice, this was the guy who was not aware that Agassi used crystal meth for fun - more recreational than performance enhancing, but still a banned substance, a test failure for which, the Tennis authorities decided to hush up ( sound familiar? )

Said coach has continued to bleat continually to the world about tennis being the most tested sport in the world quoting 30 times per year for players - all nonsense, they experience nothing like this amount and the regime is dubious to the say the least.

So given the number of hushed up drug failures in tennis and the ability to move around the court at high speed throughout the game that we now see, I don't think it's unreasonable to make the jump to it being a very questionable sport in terms of drugs misuse. Hearing Murray complain about testing regimes for a number of years depresses the hell out of me because I believe that if he was clean he would be calling for as much testing as possible to get the cheats out the game. His track record on this is poor and if he has finally got round to saying something about it it's just a few years too late for my liking.

 

[beastie]

Take a look at Tennis Has A Steroid problem via Google - lots of similar questioning to this site.

During the period when Murray went from bean pole to developing muscles ( bigger than his brother isn't he?) he chose to use the man credited with turning around the career of Andre Agassi.

Bad choice, this was the guy who was not aware that Agassi used crystal meth for fun - more recreational than performance enhancing, but still a banned substance, a test failure for which, the Tennis authorities decided to hush up ( sound familiar? )

Said coach has continued to bleat continually to the world about tennis being the most tested sport in the world quoting 30 times per year for players - all nonsense, they experience nothing like this amount and the regime is dubious to the say the least.

So given the number of hushed up drug failures in tennis and the ability to move around the court at high speed throughout the game that we now see, I don't think it's unreasonable to make the jump to it being a very questionable sport in terms of drugs misuse. Hearing Murray complain about testing regimes for a number of years depresses the hell out of me because I believe that if he was clean he would be calling for as much testing as possible to get the cheats out the game. His track record on this is poor and if he has finally got round to saying something about it it's just a few years too late for my liking.

Ok, I am aware of "Tennis has a steroid problem" and the lack of testing, and Murray complaining about whereabouts in the past(once I believe). Recently he has been very vocal in his denouncement of doping and criticism of the the lack of blood testing.

What I wanted to know was the name of "said coach"?

Did you mean Gil Reyes?

I do find that THASP is about the same as The Clinic. The premise may be right but the specifics are spurious to say the least. Murray was working on the Adiddas sponsered program which is open to any of their clients. I doubt they would be complicit in roiding up the meal tickets.

 

[Hip Priest]

Human beings are just a virus with shoes. Where there is money or prestige to be made from sporting achievement, then there will be cheats.

 

[Hont]

During the period when Murray went from bean pole to developing muscles ( bigger than his brother isn't he?)

I'm not convinced about Murray one way or the other but I'm not persuaded by your arguments. It's hardly unusual to go from a slim build at 18 to a more muscular physique in your mid-twenties when you're a full time athlete. Muscle building is reliant on far more than genetics so if Andy does more physical work than Jamie he is going to have bigger muscles.

Bad choice, this was the guy who was not aware that Agassi used crystal meth for fun

I'm going to need more evidence than that.