DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
That’s are a rigid 16 tonne vehicle, more likely to be used for multi drop deliveries, not the artic that will be flying up and down the motorway in a nose to tail convoy
Driverless vehicles - Will they change cycling in any ways?
- Thread starter MidnightRider
- Start date
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That’s are a rigid 16 tonne vehicle, more likely to be used for multi drop deliveries, not the artic that will be flying up and down the motorway in a nose to tail convoy
classic33
Leg End Member
400 miles has been a more realistic high end figure since it was rolled out. With 300 - 350 miles being more commonplace.
Also if truly driverless, there would be no need to take a 45 minute break. Machines aren't covered by the working time directive. This could lead to them being driven as long as their fuel supply lasts, then stopping to refuel or recharge. Not all "driverless" lorries are electric. The one's involved in the M6 trials were all diesel powered, and each had a driver as "backup".
You've previously said that if a fault develops, whilst on the motorway, they'll simply pull over to the hard shoulder and await recovery. How do you propose they do this where there is no hard shoulder(so called smart motorways) or where the vehicle has broken down in a working lane?
Realistically though, driverless HGV's on motorways will have little or no impact on cyclists. Due in the main part to cycling not being allowed on UK motorways. Making your argument nowt but a red herring.
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The NIGHT SHIFT drove from Heathrow to Glasgow, then went off shift. I was DAY shift, so started at Glasgow on zero hours driving, enabling me to drive to Aberdeen and back within my allowed driving time. Then hand it back to a night shift driver.
PS... An average of 60 mph is indeed generous, given that anything over 7.5 tonnes is electronically restricted to 90 kph (55 mph).
As has been pointed out now, your Volvo is a 16 tonne rigid. So hardly representative of a 44 tonne MGW artic. It is going to go through a battery much quicker. Fit bigger batteries? They are heavy, and will reduce the freight capacity. And freight is what pays the haulier's bills.
the snail
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham
As soon as it becomes more cost effective to run electric HGV diesel will be dead, either by legislation or economics.
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
True. But my guess is the practicalities will take a long time to iron out. And the consumer will of course pay the price. As it stands, driver wages are a tiny portion of hauliers costs. If you take it by cost per volume, they are fairly insignificant. In my day I once worked out that the cost of diesel for my trip to Aberdeen was 3x the cost of my wages. Then lorries don't come cheap to buy or lease. Incidentally, the company I worked for went bust, despite running their lorries 24/7 where possible. Possibly a covid related "bust" though, when airfreight slowed to a trickle.
Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
A sensible approach imo.
I leave all safety systems on - most cannot be over-ridden anyway and the few that can don't bother me.
All the safety systems are designed to cater for human fallibility and, like it or not, no one who drives never makes an error of judgement or maintains 100% concentration at all times. Anyone who thinks they do is deluding themselves. The vast majority of lapses result in zero consequence but many serious incidents start with a small error compounding into one that becomes catastrophic.
Only a few weeks ago I had this conversation with a friend who is adamant that he can react faster than eg crash detection systems. Ridiculous. NCAP testing shows that an automated system will detect and initiate a complex series of evasive and protective actions before the human brain has even registered a potential problem, let alone do anything about it.
I'm no expert on all the processes activated during a crash incident so I may have missed something in this list that I rattled off to my friend:
Sensors monitoring state prior to incident will include vehicle speed, braking situation ie on or off, vehicle stability and power distribution to wheels, speed related steering input sensitivity, distance from vehicle in front, closing (or the opposite) speed to the vehicle in front etc. A competent driver will be doing similar, but on the other hand cannot know some of the listed parameters, nor have the same degree of accuracy on those they can determine.
So, in an imminent collision situation a well-equipped vehicle will calculate all appropriate parameters and take action. Roughly this will consist of applying brakes to pre-heat discs, power to wheels is redistributed, electronic stability control maintains optimum vehicle 'posture' and road positioning, seatbelts are pretensioned, airbags are checked and brought to a state of readiness, all open windows are closed.
If a crash is unavoidable then ABS and brake boost kicks in, some cars are are also equipped to undertake directional avoidance manouvres, airbags are deployed, the fuel system is shut down, hazard lights initiated, handbrake is applied when the car stops moving, vehicle location is evaluated and SOS call initiated.
My friend did not even know about many of these processes yet still insisted he could 'beat the car'.
As I said, I am no expert, and I may have sequence order wrong etc but to my mind there is an impressive amount of technology at work in situations where the 'chips are down' so to speak that wiil either reduce injuries, or even save the lives, of the occupants of a modern car.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't using the Volvo as the comparator. I was using the Tesla Semi. This is not rigid and hauls up to 88000lbs. Not every company needs to go 1120 miles in 36 hours though. Tesco are already using EV tractors as are DHL and finding them to be great. Growth in EV HGVs is increasing, so something is going right.
Also the Volvo FM is a heavy duty lorry tractor not a rigid.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/tr...ic-tractor-units-deployed-by-dhl-supply-chain
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/tr...-deploys-uk-s-first-electric-articulated-hgvs
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/zero-emission-trucks-record-biggest-market-share-of-2023
the snail
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham
Yes, there is no reason to have any blind spots. People underestimate the progress that has been made on AI systems. IMO Tesla will have a functional autonomous system within 5 years or so.
Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
Fair enough.... But in the links you quoted, the Volvo has a range of "up to" 180 miles, and the Daf 100 miles. That won't have fleet managers rushing to buy them.
Punkawallah
Über Member
Before electric goods vehicles, much less ‘smart’ vehicles, are a common sight on our roads, the question of cost needs to be addressed. Apparently an electric bin wagon is something in the order of £500,000, the diesel version, £250,000.
And I’ve seen too many cock-ups over the years to put much faith in computer systems. ‘Horizon’ anyone?
And I’ve seen too many cock-ups over the years to put much faith in computer systems. ‘Horizon’ anyone?
DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
The Tesla won't be coming to the UK or EU, it's too big, as are all U.S built trucks, you only see the odd one as a recovery truck, or a show vehicle, with no trailer on them
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
I stand by what I said. When properly programmed and set up, they WILL be better than humans.
It doesn't matter how hard it is to reverse a truck into some of these places, AI will be able to manoeuvre more accurately, and will be able to successfully get into anywhere a human can, usually with less back and forth for difficult ones.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
There's no law at the present time, and no stated cases that have gone against a driver for not using them.
An insurer would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that such a system could have prevented an incident, or lessened the consequences, in order to penalise a drive and at this time there no reasonable means of doing so. In any case, if you're fully comp then they're contractually obliged to stump up.
I don't need a steering wheel to vibrate because I have eyes. I have the same car as you, and you will know how it often wakes up inappropriately. If that happens enough then you know as well as I you'll start to take no notice anyway.
As a civilian advanced driver (which is somewhere slightly south of a police standard or old Class 3 driver) you'll know that a thoughtless reliance on items provided for safety ultimately has the opposite effect. For example, you'll know that the typical driver uses indicators, that most basic of safety aids, as a substitute for proper obs. And so it is with these systems.
When someone can create ones that are infallible, that don't vibrate the wheel simply because it's a narrow road, or apply the brakes simply because it's detected a car parked four wheels up on the footway, then I'll use them. Until that time I am clearly better able to discern the width of the carriageway and the status of other objects around me with far greater effectiveness than MINI can.
classic33
Leg End Member
500 mile range is the extended range available, 300 miles is the standard range, according to the Tesla site.
Their Semi isn't on sale in the UK yet, and there is no date yet for when it will become available in the UK.
It's not designed to support autopilot control upgrades, unlike their cars.
So any comparison between it and electric HGV's already on the road outside of the US is meaningless.
