Doping git thread

[SWSteve]

1) That statement suggests you got no enjoyment out of the spectacle of the bike race itself, which I'm sure is not true.

Anyone watching cycling should do so with their eyes well and truly open. It's had about 100 years of doping problems, if you're watching thinking that everyone is suddenly clean you're being naive. Nobody winning a Grand Tour will be above suspicion, probably ever.

2) Very few sportsmen at the top of sport should be admired. Even ones who don't cheat at their job / don't cheat on their partners / don't dodge tax / don't rape teenagers / aren't racist / don't fix games / don't think they're above the law / don't prostitute themselves for money they don't need, are still incredibly self-centred, uninteresting human beings, simply because to become that good you have to be incredibly dedicated. And if you're that dedicated, everything else takes a back seat. Ever watch a sportsmen on a celebrity quiz show? They know f**k all about anything, simply because they haven't had the time or energy to take an interest in anything but their own career.

A little disillusioned I know, but this week we've had the Astana/Padova revelations, an IAAF cover-up (225 athletes), Rory Mcilroy aledgedly destroying evidence in a case brought solely because he wants to wheedle out of an agreement because he realised he could earn more outside of it, and the ten minutes of football I watched this week saw a player being sent off when his finger brushed an opposing player, who went down like he'd been shot with an elephant gun.

1) Yes, I can see what you are saying, however if these people are put on pedestals for us to view in the public image, the pedestal shouldn't have some flimsy plaster hiding what is behind it. The idea of 'but you enjoyed it, didn't you' doesn't justify what was happening. if you believe that was the case, then why can;t this be taken to other scenarios.

2) I don't believe this is the case. Real people can have real heroes, and it doesn't need to be the whole of the character which you can use for a role model or to draw influence from. Saying they do all of those wrong/taboo actions doesn't mean that is all they are, there is much more to this person. Just because someone makes a stack of cash from 'prostitution for money that they don't need' it doesn't mean that is all they are/all they have achieved.

 

[SWSteve]

'People' is gender-neutral, but Hont's post specifically referred to 'sportsmen'. Women's sport is cleaner than men's in general.

the first part of his first reply, below, is also gender neutral

1) That statement suggests you got no enjoyment out of the spectacle of the bike race itself, which I'm sure is not true.

Anyone watching cycling should do so with their eyes well and truly open. It's had about 100 years of doping problems, if you're watching thinking that everyone is suddenly clean you're being naive. Nobody winning a Grand Tour will be above suspicion, probably ever.

 

[SWSteve]

Yes. And?

I just don't see why you only called me on it.

 

[SWSteve]

Oversensitive much? I was just pointing out that women's sport is much cleaner than men's, so it might be good to avoid lumping us in with them.

Not at all, I was just wondering why you singled me out.

 

[Bollo]

Just heard fat Pat on 5 live. If you really need to, I'm sure you can listen again on iplayer. But, to summarise, he's still the same **** he always was.

 

[rich p]

Oversensitive much? I was just pointing out that women's sport is much cleaner than men's, so it might be good to avoid lumping us in with them.

I'm not sure that is true in athletics.

 

[Crackle]

I'm not sure that is true in athletics.

Or tennis, or swimming. And I don't know if it's improved but I'm sure a few women cyclists highlighted there were virtually no out of competition test done at one time.

 

[ColinJ]

I was just pointing out that women's sport is much cleaner than men's, so it might be good to avoid lumping us in with them.

I think it is inconsistent to insist on gender-neutrality for positive subjects but then to complain about gender-neutrality for negative ones!

I can think of several female pro cyclists who are strongly suspected of doping.

 

[fimm]

East German female athletes, anyone?

 

[Hont]

The idea of 'but you enjoyed it, didn't you' doesn't justify what was happening.

Agree 100%. But you used the phrase that you "invested time" as if you got no enjoyment from actually watching the races. As if watching cycling was done under duress in the hope that the participants might be worthy of your respect.

I got tremendous entertainment from Armstrong on Alpe D'Huez in 2001, which has since become tainted, but I still have good memories of watching that race. If you have to believe that cycling is completely clean to derive any pleasure from it, you should probably stop watching.

Real people can have real heroes

Agree 100%. But choose this guy, not a sportsman. Getting paid millions to do what most people choose to do for free is not heroic.

 

[Crackle]

East German female athletes, anyone?

Have you got some on offer. Two for a fiver?

 

[rich p]

East German female athletes, anyone?

Have you got some on offer. Two for a fiver?

I think you'll find that the Jamaican, Kenyan and Russian female athletes are the bargains this year.

 

[ColinJ]

I was just having a clear out of old cycling magazines and spotted this in one of them ...

23rd March, 2007, Mallorca

Evaluation camp with Dr Ferrari [Find the Truth]

Ha ha ha!

Dr Ferrari's verdict - The truth is that you won't be able to ride as fast as Armstrong unless you substitute EPO for your breakfast OJ, and blood doping for your vitamin supplements!

 

[oldroadman]

I still think it's possible that most of that doesn't apply to women in sport though.

Why not? The rewards are increasing all the time and in some sports are astronomical. Wherever there is a lot of money to be made, some will do what bthey consider necessary to achieve their ambitions. Gender is of no consequence. More men use illegal methods because there is more top end sport and money for men, a simple equation. Percentages would be a more accurate guide. I would like it to be zero - at least in cycling - then the other sports who "don't have a problem" might just clean up or at least make an effort, which quite a few high profile sports don't seem to be inclined to do because of the money and reputations involved.

 

[Bollo]

And back to our friends at Astana.....

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...n-warns-astana-future-is-still-in-the-balance

Cookson is far too media-savvy to say anything too interesting, but it looks to me like he's trying to put enough space between the UCI and the licence commission decision to avoid any fallout from another positive test.