Does anybody else have trouble with gear shifter logic?

[jimboalee]

Let's hope to Heaven Campag, Sram and Shimano are reading this.

Come on lads. WHAT WE WANT is a gear change system that simply involves nudging a lever one way for an upshift and the other way for a down shift.

Surely your engineers can devise a position sensing and logic system to accomplish this.

A small bit of user input - ring and sprocket sizes - and your computer should do the rest.


I shalln't hold my breath.

 

[onlyhuman]

If you are refering to your original post where you ask for a "mental trick", the 'mental trick' in this instance is called

MEMORY ....

Or as us who have well developed High Accelerated Region say,,, "RECALL"... because a human being memorises EVERYTHING... it's the individual's power of recall that lets him/her sit his/her exams a doddle.

No, I was referring to your general tendency to barge around the place shouting irrelevancies. All that incoherent bollocks about the differences between chimps and humans, the poorly-considered, poorly-expressed drivel above about a human being memorising EVERYTHING, all the self-important stuff about car testing, and the insistence that you already have the only possible correct answer, when you haven't actually understood the question.

 

[asterix]

No, I was referring to your general tendency to barge around the place shouting irrelevancies. All that incoherent bollocks about the differences between chimps and humans, the poorly-considered, poorly-expressed drivel above about a human being memorising EVERYTHING, all the self-important stuff about car testing, and the insistence that you already have the only possible correct answer, when you haven't actually understood the question.

Lemme guess.. Ah! I've got it.. You're a schoolteacher..

 

[John the Monkey]

Gentlemen!

You can't fight in here, this is the...

Oh, hang on a minute, it's an internet forum. Carry on.

 

[beancounter]

To answer your original question then:-

No, nobody else has trouble with gear shifter logic.

It's just you.

bc

 

[MacB]

To answer your original question then:-

No, nobody else has trouble with gear shifter logic.

It's just you.

bc

I must contradict, I seem ok on the right hand now, though still the occasional wrong direction. However I change from the middle ring so rarely that, unless I give it concious thought, I invariably go the wrong way.

 

[jimboalee]

The OP's GREATEST mistake here was to openly admit on a public forum that he is having brain-to-hand co-ordination problems ( or is it 'learning difficulties' ) with a devise so simple, a schoolchild can master it.

 

[02GF74]

not really.

I have rod bikes with STi and down tube shifters so it gets a little bit of time to get my hand in the correct place for the down tube shifter but doesn't take more than a couple of goes.

I have moutaineous bikes with shimano STI and one with SRAM - agian the SRAM has buttons on smae side, like the old shimano, whereas the shimano have one botton in front and one behind. takes a gbit more time to get used to it but I cannot ever think I've shifted down instread of up and vice veersa.

it owuld be good if there was a standard way, like all cars that have 3 foot controlled pedals always have them laid out in the same order.

 

[jimboalee]

not really.

I have rod bikes with STi and down tube shifters so it gets a little bit of time to get my hand in the correct place for the down tube shifter but doesn't take more than a couple of goes.

I have moutaineous bikes with shimano STI and one with SRAM - agian the SRAM has buttons on smae side, like the old shimano, whereas the shimano have one botton in front and one behind. takes a gbit more time to get used to it but I cannot ever think I've shifted down instread of up and vice veersa.

it owuld be good if there was a standard way, like all cars that have 3 foot controlled pedals always have them laid out in the same order.

North American bikes have the front brake lever on the left.

It makes no problem if brakes are applied equally.

The thing about bicycles, as opposed to motorcars, is if you flick the lever the wrong way, you don't end up hurtling into a queue of bus passengers and killing 8 of them.

 

[John the Monkey]

No, nobody else has trouble with gear shifter logic.

I don't now, but I did - the mental "tricks" outlined earlier mean that I now don't.

 

[onlyhuman]

The OP's GREATEST mistake here was to openly admit on a public forum that he is having brain-to-hand co-ordination problems with a devise so simple, a schoolchild can master it.

In what sense do you see that as a mistake? No doubt some schoolchildren can master gear shifters more easily than others, just as some schoolchildren learn to spell simple words like "device" without difficulty, while others may struggle with spelling throughout their lives.

I don't have any trouble with spelling, but if I did I would have no hesitation in openly admitting this on an appropriate public forum, and asking for help. If I couldn't spell simple words like "device" I would be interested in any reason why that might be so, so that I could apply this learning more generally, and I would be interested in a general rule that might help me avoid mistakes in future. As it happens, I do have such a general rule to help with the spelling of words like "devise" and "device": the word "ice" (as in frozen water) is a noun, while the word "ise" is not, the word "devise" is a verb, and the word "device" is a noun. I don't know how widely and consistently this can be applied, so perhaps you would like to try it for a while and report back Jimbo.

As it happens, I have long-standing interests in the psychology of control mechanisms and the psychology of individual learning, and I see my own co-ordination problems with gear shifters as a case history. I don't generally have co-ordination problems: as evidence, I play many different musical instruments, string, woodwind and keyboard, to a reasonable standard, I don't have difficulty with the gears on a car or motorbike, I can operate a mechanical excavator, a forklift truck.

I think there's a flaw in the design of gear shifters, which causes problems for a subset of users. I've been interested to hear reasons in this discussion why the mechanism works in the way it does, and one list member thoughtfully suggested a very effective solution to my own problem, relating the motion of the levers to the motion of the derailleurs.

Your contribution to the discussion has been worse than useless Jimbo. You have offered nothing of value, and your atttitude would tend to discourage contributions from others who, unlike you, may have something of real interest to say.

 

[jimboalee]

The BIG lever pulls the mech against it's spring.
The small lever or trigger releases the ratchet so the spring shifts the mech.

The spring always pulls the chain onto a smaller sprocket or ring...

Simples.

THIS is how they work.

Some information that is not of value. Ignore it.

 

[jimboalee]

In what sense do you see that as a mistake? No doubt some schoolchildren can master gear shifters more easily than others, just as some schoolchildren learn to spell simple words like "device" without difficulty, while others may struggle with spelling throughout their lives.

I don't have any trouble with spelling, but if I did I would have no hesitation in openly admitting this on an appropriate public forum, and asking for help. If I couldn't spell simple words like "device" I would be interested in any reason why that might be so, so that I could apply this learning more generally, and I would be interested in a general rule that might help me avoid mistakes in future. As it happens, I do have such a general rule to help with the spelling of words like "devise" and "device": the word "ice" (as in frozen water) is a noun, while the word "ise" is not, the word "devise" is a verb, and the word "device" is a noun. I don't know how widely and consistently this can be applied, so perhaps you would like to try it for a while and report back Jimbo.

As it happens, I have long-standing interests in the psychology of control mechanisms and the psychology of individual learning, and I see my own co-ordination problems with gear shifters as a case history. I don't generally have co-ordination problems: as evidence, I play many different musical instruments, string, woodwind and keyboard, to a reasonable standard, I don't have difficulty with the gears on a car or motorbike, I can operate a mechanical excavator, a forklift truck.

I think there's a flaw in the design of gear shifters, which causes problems for a subset of users. I've been interested to hear reasons in this discussion why the mechanism works in the way it does, and one list member thoughtfully suggested a very effective solution to my own problem, relating the motion of the levers to the motion of the derailleurs.

Your contribution to the discussion has been worse than useless Jimbo. You have offered nothing of value, and your atttitude would tend to discourage contributions from others who, unlike you, may have something of real interest to say.

You seem to have a nervous stammer when you're angry.

 

[SPHDS]

This has turned into a bit of a 'handbags at dawn' situation! I remember when I first got a bike with multiple chainrings that I did get a bit confused when in a hurry, but then did work it out, my current mount has only two chainrings so it ain't so much of a problem, but can see where the confusion can arise!

But in answer to the title, 'No, not anymore!'

But then I have never ridden anything with STI type shifters, so can't really comment!!

 

[02GF74]

In what sense do you see that as a mistake?
I think there's a flaw in the design of gear shifters, which causes problems for a subset of users. I've been interested to hear reasons in this discussion why the mechanism works in the way it does, and one list member thoughtfully suggested a very effective solution to my own problem, relating the motion of the levers to the motion of the derailleurs.

can't comment about ergo since I do not know what they are - presumably Campag raod bike equivalent of Shimano STi?

anyways there are at least 6 types of gear change mechanism
1. sturmey archer hub gears - not discussing them
2. down tube shifters - a lever that pull on a cable and held in place by friction. RH pull towards you to pull rear changer up the cogs so making pedalling easier. LH same but for front shifter, pulling cable pulls shifter onto bigger cog making pedalling harder. they work like that due to cable pull.
3. shimano road STI - the brake lever is in two parts, the outer pulls the cable the inner drops cable via a ratchet. so the big lever is equivalent of pulling the lever described in 2 above.
4. shimano mtb sti - two levers that are pushed with thumb, one button pulls calbe, the other releases via ratchet, later models have the releae button in front so it is pushed via a finger not thumb.
5. oh yeah, older mtb sti had friction lever, aka thumbshifters
6. gripshift - not discussing that either.
7. mavic electic shift - rarer than a french virgin
8. shimano pneumatic shift - rarer than an honest politician

basically the mechanism has too pull on a cable to go one way and the spring tension in the mech and to lesser extent in the shifter moves it the other way.