Do we really think most motorist are good and courteous?

[MrHappyCyclist]

I've often seen it said by cyclists, particularly fellow camera wearing ones, that most drivers are good and courteous and it is just a minority that are bad. In fact, I've often said it myself. However, on reflection, I'm not so sure about that. Is it just a politically correct thing to say, or do people really believe it?

I am coming to think the number of good, courteous drivers is actually fewer than the number of very bad, discourteous and/or dangerous ones, whilst the rest are mediocre at best. It seems to be very rare for me to encounter a driver who passes according to the guidance given in HC rules 163, 212 and 213 when overtaking, for example; sufficiently rare that I even post a video when it happens!.

I suspect that the majority of drivers believe that cyclists should be riding in the gutter all of the time, and get annoyed when we are "deliberately blocking them", even though it is only a minority that actually express their annoyance overtly.

I think this is important because it implies that there is a need to shift the world-view of most of the motoring public rather than just to deal with a few errant motorists. If that is the case, then saying over and over that most motorists are good and courteous probably doesn't help.

However, this is just the opinion I am forming, and I'm interested in what other people really think.

 

[ianrauk]

On my daily commute through SE London, the good and courteous drivers out number the bad ones by hundreds, if not more. I can count on one hand the amount of bad driver incidents I have had on my commute in the past month.

 

[BSRU]

You can only judge a courteous driver when you've caused them to slow down and loose a few precious seconds, how they react is a good indication.
Generally it is rare that a driver takes umbridge at not being able to drive at or above the prescribed speed limit for motorised vehicles.

It is understandable when you consider all the physical effort required by a driver to slow down and the speed up again .

 

[tyred]

There are some right ignorant tossers out there but the majority are considerate in my experience. There is also a separate group of drivers who mean no harm but are just incompetent.

 

[dellzeqq]

I do believe that most drivers are courteous and sensible.

 

[mickle]

I think it depends very much on where you are in the country. But from where I'm standing I have to agree with MrHappyCyclist.

I believe that the majority of drivers are selfish, incompetent, dangerous and/or habitual law breakers. Drive at the speed limit on some of the roads around here to quickly find yourself leading a line of impatient tailgaters. Ride a bicycle on the country lanes to witness a contstant stream of way-too-close over takes. Red light jumping seems endemic, as does pavement parking. Wait on a traffic island forever to cross as a pedestrian - even if they have only six feet beyond their bumper to get to. And even if you're pushing a pram.

Cnuts the lot of them.

 

[rowan 46]

It depends on your definition of courteous 95% of drivers I have no problems with maybe even more. occasionally some drivers are just bloody rude more are just accidentally careless but its rare enough for a driver to do something nice, that it pulls me up short and makes me think "what a nice person". So as I say it depends on your definition if you mean by courteous doing what's expected in a civilised society then I would say about 95%. If you mean by courteous doing that little bit extra to think of others. Then that is rarer than inconsiderate and bad drivers.

 

[stroanite]

I think it depends on which kind of drivers. Most of the locals here (Badenoch) are fine. Some of the tradesmen (white van' if you will) are piss-poor at patience, and a few of the youngsters are bad at speed control (probably the immortality thing). The really bad drivers are the tourists in hire cars/mobile homes, some of whom have no clue where the vehicle finishes, and less clue about single-track roads.

 

[pshore]

I would phrase it more like most people are not out to intentionally harm you.

I see it as shades of grey rather than a black and white issue.
If we take overtaking on a rural road as an example:

• There are a minority of drivers that cross the white line entirely to overtake. I suspect they are cyclists due to the great care they take.
• A lot of drivers can be coaxed into overtaking in the opposite lane with a bit of Cycle-Crafting. They are taking care around others.
• Most drivers pass with enough room but a bit more would be safer I fell off. These are the sheep, copying the overtaking style of the majority. They think they are safe around others but I would disagree.
• Some pass too close at too high a speed. They are not thinking about safety of others but are still not out to intentionally harm us. I am guessing these people never walk or cycle anywhere and have no idea how anti-social and dangerous they are.
• Some go out of their way to teach you a lesson even on a empty road. They are rare enough - I seem to get them about once every 1000km of cycling.

By far, the largest group are the sheep.

 

[chillyuk]

I find most drivers round here pretty good which amazed me when I first moved to Essex. Cross the border into Hertfordshire though and it's take life into own hands territory.

 

[Davidc]

Most drivers are courteous, a minority are good, a majority have just adequate skills and ability.

There are a small minority who are dangerous, and a small minority who are rude and obnoxious. Those don't always go together but often do.

I find that some days I come across loads of dangerous/ rude/ obnoxious drivers, some days neary all are good, courteous and friendly. Usually it's the usual mix.

there is a need to shift the world-view of most of the motoring public

No, not the world view, just the UK one. In most countries in Europe I've been to I've found that drivers are almost universally cycle friendly and supportive. On the few occasions I've been to the US it seems almost like the UK, and I don't have any experience of the rest.

 

[jack the lad]

Motorists are people who drive cars. Cyclists are people who ride bicycles. Pedestrians are people who walk around. Swimmers are people who move along in water.

What they all have in common is that they are people. There will be pretty much the same proportion of rude, ignorant and selfish ones in each category and some people will be rude ignorant and selfish whatever mode of travel they are using at any one time.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Some really good replies here. I agree with rowan_46 that I need to define more clearly what I mean.

I like pshore's classification, which helps with that definition, and have indicated what I meant and how common I feel they are in bold italics after each one.

• There are a minority of drivers that cross the white line entirely to overtake. I suspect they are cyclists due to the great care they take. ("good and courteous" - extremely rare)
• A lot of drivers can be coaxed into overtaking in the opposite lane with a bit of Cycle-Crafting. They are taking care around others. ("good and courteous" - rare)
• Most drivers pass with enough room but a bit more would be safer I fell off. These are the sheep, copying the overtaking style of the majority. They think they are safe around others but I would disagree. ("poor/mediocre" - majority)
• Some pass too close at too high a speed. They are not thinking about safety of others but are still not out to intentionally harm us. I am guessing these people never walk or cycle anywhere and have no idea how anti-social and dangerous they are. ("discourteous/dangerous" - rare)
• Some go out of their way to teach you a lesson even on a empty road. They are rare enough - I seem to get them about once every 1000km of cycling. ("discourteous/dangerous" - very rare)

No, not the world view, just the UK one.

By "world-view", I mean their view of the world; I agree that I meant "... a need to shift the world-view of most of the UK motoring public ..." and didn't make that clear.

I also agree with jack_the_lad that there are good and bad among all road users, but I am specifically referring to (UK) motorists and the way the majority of them see and/or treat cyclists in general.

In particular, I suspect that the vast majority of UK motorists do not share our view that cycles are road vehicles having the same right to be on the road as any other vehicles, that the middle of the lane is the correct position for us to be in, and that our moving to the side to let them pass is a courtesy, not an obligation. (Assuming we do share that view.)

 

[jack the lad]

In particular, I suspect that the vast majority of UK motorists do not share our view that cycles are road vehicles having the same right to be on the road as any other vehicles, that the middle of the lane is the correct position for us to be in, and that our moving to the side to let them pass is a courtesy, not an obligation. (Assuming we do share that view.)

Do we not have an obligation to be courteous. The correct position to be in is one that allows me to cycle safely and doesn't unduly inconvenience other road users, only occasionally does this require me to be in the middle of the lane. As a competent cyclist I can usually cycle quite close to the edge of the road quite safely and allow other road users room to pass. It is ignorant and dangerous to hog the middle of the lane come what may.

 

[mickle]

Do we not have an obligation to be courteous. The correct position to be in is one that allows me to cycle safely and doesn't unduly inconvenience other road users, only occasionally does this require me to be in the middle of the lane. As a competent cyclist I can usually cycle quite close to the edge of the road quite safely and allow other road users room to pass. It is ignorant and dangerous to hog the middle of the lane come what may.

Do you understand the concept of 'primary position'? Just asking.