Do we pay for the roads?

[jonesy]

It is a pointless argument. People don't hate cyclists because we don't pay 'road tax', rather it is that they think we should pay tax because they hate cyclists. And the thing they object to is that we don't pay it, not what it is called, so there's no point wasting time explaining that 'road tax' doesn't exist etc. Cycling isn't increasing in London because more people are being persuaded by the road tax argument, it is increasing because more and more people are realising that cycling is a fast and convenient way to get round a congested city, so let's focus our efforts there..

 

[StuartG]

Cycling isn't increasing in London because more people are being persuaded by the road tax argument, it is increasing because more and more people are realising that cycling is a fast and convenient way to get round a congested city, so let's focus our efforts there..

Up from a tiny percentage to a less tiny percentage. That's good but, to one who remembers what mass cycling looked like, not impressive. We still have the problem that most people, at best, regard cycling as an aberration, at worst as something just short of terrorism. Until that changes, (and how?) - we are going nowhere.

 

[earth]

It is a pointless argument. People don't hate cyclists because we don't pay 'road tax', rather it is that they think we should pay tax because they hate cyclists. And the thing they object to is that we don't pay it, not what it is called, so there's no point wasting time explaining that 'road tax' doesn't exist etc. Cycling isn't increasing in London because more people are being persuaded by the road tax argument, it is increasing because more and more people are realising that cycling is a fast and convenient way to get round a congested city, so let's focus our efforts there..

The argument I was making is not that road tax doesn't exist (and it doesn't), the argument was that we pay for the roads we use through council tax.

You could be right that motorists hate cyclist regardless of whether we pay VED. But I think its irrelevant. Without that argument they would have not much else than plain hate. Isn't small minded hate against minorities a crime nowadays?

 

[earth]

Such a campaign exists:

http://ipayroadtax.com/

Wonderful.

 

[ufkacbln]

You've never experienced motorists saying you shouldn't be allowed to use the roads because you don't pay for them? I do contribute to them.

Play the game?
Did this with a guy at work

Agreed that as they pay more than a cyclists they have theoretically more right

So inquired what they drive ........

Then point out that I have a car that is more expensive, heavier on fuel and is in a higher VED band than theirs.... I pay more than he does so by his own theory I have more right on the road and he should be getting out of my way!

He has never mentioned it in my presence again

 

[e-rider]

general income tax pays for roads, vehicle tax (aka road tax) is a kind of 'green' tax or an excuse for just another tax; it doesn't however pay for roads

 

[ufkacbln]

Winston Churchill abolished road tax on the grounds that:

"It will be only a step from this for them to claim in a few years the moral ownership of the roads their contributions have created"

80 years after the abolition, some muppets are still proving him right!

 

[ufkacbln]

Pedantic note:

Churchill did not abolish Road tax. He spoke against it in a debate in 1925 but it was actually abolished 12 years later in 1937 by Austin Chamberlain. One of the real reasons that Churchill disliked Road Tax was that it was hypothecated and he wanted to get his hands on it for other uses.

I'm afraid that ipayroadtax.com and other web-sites are guilty of exaggerating and perpetuating the urban mythology surrounding Churchill's role in the demise of Road Tax.

...but it is still a brilliant quote!

 

[ufkacbln]

My other favourite was Lord Brabazon of Tara

“It is true that 7000 people are killed in motor accidents, but it is not always going on like that. People are getting used to the new conditions… No doubt many of the old Members of the House will recollect the number of chickens we killed in the old days. We used to come back with the radiator stuffed with feathers. It was the same with dogs. Dogs get out of the way of motor cars nowadays and you never kill one. There is education even in the lower animals. These things will right themselves.”

 

[broadway]

Up from a tiny percentage to a less tiny percentage. That's good but, to one who remembers what mass cycling looked like, not impressive. We still have the problem that most people, at best, regard cycling as an aberration, at worst as something just short of terrorism. Until that changes, (and how?) - we are going nowhere.

This report suggests it is more than a tiny percentage

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2013/jun/25/cyclists-quarter-london-vehicles

 

[StuartG]

This report suggests it is more than a tiny percentage
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2013/jun/25/cyclists-quarter-london-vehicles

Dreadful cherry picking there. Didn't you read the article/check the research?

Monitoring a tiny selection of central commuter routes in rush hour when alternatives are near stationary or being surcharged is no way to judge the overall modal split for London. Let's take the other 20 hours for all the London Boroughs and AFAIR many are well below 5%. Can someone take time to come up with the real figures?

Otherwise please don't kid yourself and others - cycling for most Londoners most of the time is still a tiny niche.

 

[araapatlio]

Yes, cyclists pay for the roads.

But the animosity direct at cyclists is not really about who *pays* for the roads (everyone, via general taxation) but about who has a natural right to be on the road. Many people have the idea that the road is the natural home of the motorist and that other road users are fortunate to be given space and time on their thoroughfare. The fact is that government policy has for many years favoured motorists, so many people seem to think is a natural state of affairs. People curiously do not object to government spending millions on road building projects for motorists, but do not want to "subsidise" or spend money on making roads cycle-friendly. We all have an equal right to use the roads, the sooner government policy reflected that, the better.

 

[Tanis8472]

Nope, I think you will find that cyclists, horse riders and peds have a right to use the roads, which btw most were made into tarmac roads by cycling campaigns many years ago.

Cars use them by licence, hence the driving licence

Good post btw