Do we have to use the Cycle path

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summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
I normally hate cycle paths

There is a shared use facility on the route I commute home and since having a head on collision on it with a woman on a MTB with defective brakes I stick to the (safer) road

However, at the weekend I was trying out the new route for an audax I organise. It was using the cycle paths on the A4171 ring road in North Bristol. They are really good. Clean, good surfacing, wide enough to avoid the rare pedestrians and other bikes and minimal problems with giving way to major roads

Mr Summerdays uses the A4174 (assuming that's what you meant) and so does mgarl10024 as far as I know ... I think they can get quite busy in the summer months at peak commuting times ... and in the winter time there is a bit of battle of the Lumens going on but I doubt Mr Summerdays would have taken up cycle commuting if it wasn't for that path.
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
This makes for pretty depressing reading:

'OK' for car to hit cyclist outside cycle lane


http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/77/article16.html
 

evilkitten

Well-Known Member
Location
Bristol
However, at the weekend I was trying out the new route for an audax I organise. It was using the cycle paths on the A4171 ring road in North Bristol. They are really good. Clean, good surfacing, wide enough to avoid the rare pedestrians and other bikes and minimal problems with giving way to major roads

They are preferable to using the dual carriageway between Abbeywood and Warmley. There are narrow areas, particularly between Hambrook lights and Bromley Heath Road. Thankfully, the idiotic sign (http://cyclingfront.blogspot.com/2011/02/demand-1-repeated-cycle-paths-dutch.html) has now been moved, so I don't need to warn about that one.

South of Warmley, you're dropped into an infestation of small paths with tight curves, bad sight-lines, traffic conflict and glass.

If you're organising an audax along there, bear in mind that there are often a lot of dog walkers and wobbly kids between Mangotsfield station and Warmley. You might want to take some of the back roads around Siston instead.

evilkitten.
 

Mad at urage

New Member
LOL - why do you think John Franklin's services are regularly called upon as an expert witness on cycling matters? Insurance companies will always look for ways to try to lower settlements by suggesting the non-use of facilities equates to contributory negligence! You might be surprised to learn that whilst Cyclecraft is highly regarded by cyclists, the judiciary are rather harder to convince where matters of cycling best practice are concerned.

Well, lol was what I was doing a lot of the time when reading Cyclecraft, yes. I was aware that he is called as an expert witness and that is what I was hoping to imply. Not that the evidence of expert witnesses is always appreciated, but the members of "the judiciary" that I personally know are certainly enlightened by some of his revelations (and not at all resistant to being enlightened).

This makes for pretty depressing reading:

'OK' for car to hit cyclist outside cycle lane


http://www.camcycle..../article16.html
Depressing and worrying. Some people just won't be educated and there is a tendency in all bureaucrats to close ranks once a decision has been taken. Given the resource shortages in our court system the result (so far) is hardly surprising: Any excuse not to prosecute will be snatched at. Certainly I won't be putting the rubber stops back in my bar-ends anytime soon (nor will I use cycle lanes where I believe they increase my risk).
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
It is depressing, IMHO the widespread use of pavement 'cycle paths' has been one of the most detrimental developments in cycling over the last 10 years. My non use of a pavement that people wrongly think is a cycle path has been by far and away the main cause of conflict with drivers on my current commute.

Agree. I have changed my commuting route from a dual carriageway with shared use pavements (which I would frequently get gesticulated at, or beeped at, to use), to an equally busy single carriageway with no shared use or cycle lane. The transformation has been impressive. The odd close overtake, but no abuse.

When I'm cycling with my son in the seat on the back I will use them though, even though they are infuriating, especially having to give way at every side road.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Agree. I have changed my commuting route from a dual carriageway with shared use pavements (which I would frequently get gesticulated at, or beeped at, to use), to an equally busy single carriageway with no shared use or cycle lane. The transformation has been impressive. The odd close overtake, but no abuse.

I think some drivers tend to get incredibly excited by cyclists on dual carriageways anyway. A lot of the abuse I get is on dual carriageways - some have cyclepaths at the side, others don't. Not much of an alternative for one, hence why I use it.
 

Mad at urage

New Member
On dual carriageways they (usually) have an overtaking lane: They should learn to use it if they want to overtake (mind you, one this morning ... inside lane grew an outcrop as we approached a roundabout, this became the L-turn lane, so I moved right (looked, signaled, etc) and then one overtook me on the inside lane - to go straight ahead. Outside lane was clear for half a mile back!).b
 

lit

Well-Known Member
Location
Surrey
the best thing you can do with dual carriageways is take the inside lane, actually force them to use the outside lane - if they don't like it, then let them sit behind you, their loss.
 
On the rare occasions a driver has told me to use a cycle path, I've asked them why they aren't on the motorway. Most of them get the point.

The other amusing one was a few weeks back in Richmond Park doing 20 mph (the speed limit for all traffic including bikes) when a back seat driver pointed out there was a cycle path. I agreed, but said I'm allowed to use the road as it's quicker, and you're holding me up. :laugh:
 
Remember, what the HC states (my bolds):

You can see how a court could intepret this guidance - although of course it would depend on the specifics of the road and cycling infrastructure.

There was a big fight by the CTC and others over that wording when the HC was revised recently. Originally it was going to say you should use cycle facilities but the revised wording allows it to be the cyclist's decision. If it ever came up I suspect that would all play to your favour and the CTC would probably be there to help. Since any informed cyclist will know that research shows cycle facilities to be more dangerous than the road, it's perfectly reasonable to choose the road for your own safety.
 
Two intersting and useful sources..

Firstly the http://webarchive.nationalarchives....e/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688
Annex D: Code of Conduct Notice for Cyclists from the Depertment for Transport

The following key messages are suggested as the basis for a code of conduct notice for cyclists. The code could be posted at points of entry and at intervals along the route. This will be especially useful when the facility is new.

  • If a feature segregating cyclists from pedestrians is present, keep to the cyclist's side. This will be indicated on blue and white road signs and by cycle logos on the surface.
  • Ride on the left hand side of the area available to you. If you need to overtake another cyclist, give a gentle ring on your bell or say 'Excuse me'.
  • When coming up behind pedestrians, always pass them at a safe distance, and slowly enough so that you could avoid them if they made a sudden change in direction.
  • Remember that some pedestrians may be hard of hearing or visually impaired and hence might not be aware of you. If in doubt, give a gentle ring on your bell or say 'Excuse me'.
  • Always respect pedestrians even if they stray onto the cycling side (if there is one); they are entitled to do so. Always thank people who move out of your way.
  • Ride at a sensible speed for the situation and ensure you can stop in time. As a general rule, if you want to cycle quickly, say in excess of 18 mph/30 kph, then you should be riding on the road.
  • Use lights at night.
  • In pedestrianised areas, only ride your cycle if there aren't too many pedestrians about; otherwise dismount and push it. When visiting shops etc, park your cycle so that people will not trip over it; use formal cycle parking if available.


The second is the Institute of Advanced Motorists Factsheet 17

SHARING THE ROAD WITH CYCLISTS
Cyclists all travel at different speeds and have different levels of road experience. As a driver, you will need to take care to judge their speed as well as the road and weather conditions from the cyclist's point of view. Remember too that some cyclists, particularly younger ones, have never driven a car, and so don’t recognise the problems that they can cause car drivers. In an accident involving a car and a cyclist, whoever is to blame the cyclist will always be the more vulnerable to a serious injury. The following tips for motorists have been prepared with the National Cycling Strategy Board to avoid adding to the 2,500 cyclists killed or seriously injured each year.


Cyclists don’t have steel armour round them like we do. Passing them at speed within a foot of their elbow may feel perfectly safe from where you are, but it is very disconcerting when you are the cyclist.

Sounding your horn when you are close will startle them, maybe into swerving in front of you. They will usually be aware of you already! Slow down around cyclists and drive smoothly. Keep within the speed limit.

In traffic, make sure that you don’t cut up a cyclist who is about to pass you on the near side. Don't try to cut across a cyclist when you need to turn left at a junction. Wait behind the cyclist until the cyclist has either turned left or passed the junction.

Park with care and prevent any passengers from opening a door until you are sure that there is no cyclist coming up on either side. Likewise, check over your shoulder to see there’s no cyclist approaching before opening the driver’s door

Cyclists are advised to take a prominent position in the road well ahead of any manoeuvre to ensure they are in the right place at the right time. If they ride in the middle of the road it is probably not to obstruct your path, but to ensure that they are seen by you and by other motorists. Cyclists often ride at some distance from the kerb to avoid drains and potholes and to discourage motorists from squeezing them on narrow roads. It is not in their interest to delay motorists deliberately. Remember too that their ability to signal is limited compared to ours, so try to anticipate what they might do from the position they have taken on the road. Please be patient.

Advanced stop lines are for cyclists alone and should be respected, so leave the space between the two sets of stop lines empty, whether or not cyclists are occupying it when you arrive.

Be aware of where cycle lanes terminate, because this often means road space is more scarce and that in turn can make a cyclist more vulnerable.

Give young riders even more space than older ones; both old and young riders may swerve suddenly to avoid debris or potholes, but young people are more prone to forget your presence when they do.

Remember to use all your mirrors with extra care before changing direction when there are cyclists about. There might be a cyclist in your blind spot. Pay particular attention on roundabouts, as many accidents to cyclists happen at these junctions. Always signal at roundabouts.

Finally, every motorist has seen some irresponsible cyclists use the pavement, road and zebra crossings, seemingly at random. This is not only dangerous for pedestrians but unlawful, and the police can and do issue penalty notices for such offences. The police take a serious view of such careless or dangerous cycling, particularly when it puts other road users at risk. Responsible motorists give such irresponsible cyclists a wide berth.
 

funnymummy

A Dizzy M.A.B.I.L
Thnak you for those Cunobelin.....


I had the misfortune to meet a rather stroppy driver the other day, who obvioulsy didn't appreciate my riding in primary so when finaly passing me, decided then to pull directly accross the front of me, and then stop in the ASL at the traffic lights...I really need that ASL, as after turning left, my house is only 20 feet on the right.

But I do know the driver, they know me too - But obviooulsy didn't realise it was me - They are used to seeing me on my MummyBike towing #2 with #3 in front, not on my road bike, lycra clad & helmeted!
I think they may wake to find a copy of Factsheet 17 with serveral paragraphs highlighted under their wipers in the morn LOL!

 

Origamist

Legendary Member
There was a big fight by the CTC and others over that wording when the HC was revised recently. Originally it was going to say you should use cycle facilities but the revised wording allows it to be the cyclist's decision. If it ever came up I suspect that would all play to your favour and the CTC would probably be there to help. Since any informed cyclist will know that research shows cycle facilities to be more dangerous than the road, it's perfectly reasonable to choose the road for your own safety.

I remember the 2006 consultation and like others campaigned against the original, prescriptive wording regarding the use of cycle faclities.

What is considered "reasonable" by cyclsts, is not, IME, the same as the what the police or courts necessarily consider "reasonable" behaviour.
 
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