I don't think clout matters much with FOI, does it? I thought they have to provide the info with some provisos. I wonder if the ground routes approach would have more of an impact if it went to press?
Do the Police not care?
- Thread starter downfader
- Start date
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I don't think clout matters much with FOI, does it? I thought they have to provide the info with some provisos. I wonder if the ground routes approach would have more of an impact if it went to press?
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
http://www.thisislon...st-barrister.do
He's got some press over this.
He's got some press over this.
OP
OP
downfader
extimus uero philosophus
- Location
- 'ampsheeeer
Origamist
Legendary Member
Upadated blog entry:
"Thanks for support and a response to my critics"
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.com/2010/11/thanks-for-support-and-response-to-my.html
"Thanks for support and a response to my critics"
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.com/2010/11/thanks-for-support-and-response-to-my.html
MartinC
Über Member
- Location
- Cheltenham
Origamist, I think what you're doing is important and extremely valuable. The dismissive response from the CPS and the Police to crimes committed against members of the public simply because they happen to be riding a bike is there to be challenged. If you have the knowedge and motivation to take it through the system to the point where a response is legally required the it's doing us all a favour. I've often thought that if I had the time and resources a campaign to systematically collect all the evidence (a large sample of well documented examples and statistics) then taking the UK Government to the European Court for denial of the right to life to a large proportion of it's population would be worthwhile.
The comments you get from non-cyclists are predictable but still disappointing. The negative comments from others who cycle are very sad but, unfortunately, still predictable. We could spend for ever analysing why they think like that. I think that there are 2 big factors (amongst many others) at work. Firstly a desire to seek safety by appeasing the powerful and dangerous motorist - doomed to failure in my opinion. Secondly the shortsighted belief that cycling is a difficult and dangerous activity that reflects great credit on the hardy and intrepid souls that do it and that challenging this will damage some cyclists perception of themselves.
Thank you for sticking with this.
The comments you get from non-cyclists are predictable but still disappointing. The negative comments from others who cycle are very sad but, unfortunately, still predictable. We could spend for ever analysing why they think like that. I think that there are 2 big factors (amongst many others) at work. Firstly a desire to seek safety by appeasing the powerful and dangerous motorist - doomed to failure in my opinion. Secondly the shortsighted belief that cycling is a difficult and dangerous activity that reflects great credit on the hardy and intrepid souls that do it and that challenging this will damage some cyclists perception of themselves.
Thank you for sticking with this.
Unfortunately I think nearly every regular cyclist who's had dealing with plod will have experienced this attitude to a greater or lesser extent. I'm certainly more cynical and less confident in the police than I was say, 5 years ago. My threshold for reporting to plod has risen a few notches over the years as well.
Here's my theory. The police are just members of the public like anyone else. Generalising wildly, those attracted to the job will subscribe to the more conservative (small c) views of society and that view certainly doesn't hold cycling dear to it's heart. I believe that many police regard us as a pain in the @rse that should just f*** off and leave the roads to the cars. In their view, by riding on the road we've signed a metaphorical waiver to any rights of protection.
MartinC, Origamist isn't the blogging cycle-barrister. For a start, the barrister in question has far too much hair
Here's my theory. The police are just members of the public like anyone else. Generalising wildly, those attracted to the job will subscribe to the more conservative (small c) views of society and that view certainly doesn't hold cycling dear to it's heart. I believe that many police regard us as a pain in the @rse that should just f*** off and leave the roads to the cars. In their view, by riding on the road we've signed a metaphorical waiver to any rights of protection.
MartinC, Origamist isn't the blogging cycle-barrister. For a start, the barrister in question has far too much hair
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
Lets not get confused between the Police and the CPS. From memory, the Police have done everything they can in this case. Gather the evidence, take statements and pass it onto the CPS. It is the CPS which is the issue and not the Police Force.
thomas
the tank engine
- Location
- Woking/Norwich
I have to agree. The driver made a flippant remark and this cyclist is taking things too far.
Out of all the 'incidents' that I've seen posted on YouTube and experienced myself, I can think of many which are much better to cause a fuss about than that one.
From my limited experience I have found recently the Police have started to take things more seriously.
I emailed the local neighbourhood Police team yesterday about drivers abusing a "No Entry", within a couple of hours the guy in charge replied thanking me for my concern and stating they were going to do something about it. This morning a Police van with a camera on top was positioned to catch offending motorists.
I emailed the local neighbourhood Police team yesterday about drivers abusing a "No Entry", within a couple of hours the guy in charge replied thanking me for my concern and stating they were going to do something about it. This morning a Police van with a camera on top was positioned to catch offending motorists.
Origamist
Legendary Member
"Flippant remark" how do you know the threat was flippant (the initial threat was not caught on camera, Thomas) The driver was not jokily commenting on the unseasonably balmy weather or the unusual wading bird he'd just spotted; he was allegedly threatening a cyclist in a measured and menacing manner. .
As Easy As Riding A Bike
Well-Known Member
So what? All that matters here is whether the driver should be prosecuted/charged or not. The history of other incidents on the internet is entirely irrelevant.
In fact, you seem to be suggesting that Martin Porter should only be concerned about pursuing a prosecution when he is the subject of "an incident" that is worse than anything else on youtube.
I, on the other hand, fail to see why this incident should not be judged in isolation.
Let's make a fuss about this.
Understood completely. Mine was more a comment on my own experiences and Magger's current issues than the barrister's woes.
I believe that the police can make the decision to start a prosecution in 'minor' cases, but I don't have a clear idea of the threshold where the CPS take over. Utterly my own opinion but I sometimes wonder whether each organisation uses the other as the foil for 'plausible denial'...
Police - "We won't pursue a case because the CPS would throw it out"
CPS - "We don't have the evidence from the police investigation to pursue a prosecution"
thomas
the tank engine
- Location
- Woking/Norwich
The cyclist is trying to make a point. I very much doubt he actually felt his life was in danger. If someone threatened to kill me and I actually believed it I would stop, pull off the road and phone 999 instantly. I most certainly wouldn't be trying to catch them up to ask if they had just threatened to kill me.
And actually, from watching the clip I can see why CPS (or whatever) wouldn't want to prosecute. What is caught on camera can easily be interpreted as a flippant remark which has been egged on by the cyclist. Without the actual "I am going to kill you" line it's worthless. Assuming he actually, even said that.
I'm sorry. Read my post again as I said nothing like that. I've seen a lot worst footage on YouTube which either hasn't been taken seriously by Police or wouldn't be. Out of everything on YouTube which is worth causing a fuss over, this clip really, really isn't.
Even if you judge it in isolation it's a driver failed to see the pinch point. Cyclist and driver argue for 10 seconds, driver drives off. Cyclist catches up and carries on arguing. Cyclist makes silly remark when car is in filter lane.
I'm sorry. I just don't have much sympathy for this clip. Having been in a situation where I actually thought I was going to die under the rear of a HGV trailer, I'm not that bothered about some petty comment.
I don't feel that trying to get this clip prosecuted is a good use of time and I don't feel it does anything to make cyclist safer.
And is that a good thing or a bad thing? Me, I'd say it was a bad thing. So how do we change it? Because I don't think that just telling the victims to MTFU is a good way forward.
Origamist
Legendary Member
How do you know how someone else is feeling? Did you teleport yourself back in time and listen to the threat and then mind-meld with Porter? Stop the idle speculation.
So what if more serious incidents go unpunished, that's hardly a compelling reason not to pursue less serious criminal behaviour.
