Directional tread pattern

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winjim

Smash the cistern
Where the tyre is harder than the riding surface, i.e. putty-density mud or sand on top of hardpack, the tread is useful. Here it penetrates softer top layer and settles on harder substrate underneath. Where the top substrate is slushy, the knobblies do nothing. Here you have to run a narrower tyre that can hopefully sink in to a harder substrate underneath. Running tyres with substantial finger-like tread on snow will give you better grip than slicks. This is because the finger knobblies will penetrate up to where the tyre casing contacts the snow and compact it around the knob and there will be grip. However, that is not the scenario we're talking about which is a thin layer of snow or worse, ice, on asphalt.
With winter tyres on loose slush atop packed snow, I sometimes find I need to spin the rear wheel to clear the loose layer so the tyre can find something to grip onto. The front tyre accomplishes this by merely sliding sideways until it has dug itself deep enough into the snow to reach the packed snow/ice layer.

This is on relatively skinny 30mm tyres with quite a shallow tread.
 
Location
Loch side.
If you search on line. you will find many sites refering to flipping a front MTB tyre to improve braking, it is not just a theory I have dreamt up, for example:-

http://workingoncycles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/tyre-fitting-tread-direction-for-off.html

Note the bit where its mentioned how the Pro's have there front tyres flipped.



I used to ride Conto 4000GP S all year round, the grip going up wet very steep hills at times was next to useless with occasional wheel spins especcially if you hit a patch of mud or tried to speed up. I have even ripped grooves into the tyre from wheel spins on rough tarmac. Marathon Plus maybe heavy, but this time of year, its not all about speed and how light your bike is, resistance training comes to mind for example, along with doing the best to avoid having to repair punctures in freezing cold conditions.
There is not a single bit of science in that article that you cited. It is merely an opinion, observation that manufacturers are inconsistent, and another observation of what the professonals do.

As for the story of ripping grooves in your slicks in spinning uphill. Well... Wishful thinking I say. If your wheel has no traction, there will not be any abrasion in the tyre since abrasion equals traction. Further, once you lose traction, you essentially lose all forward motion which you require to balance. In theory a circus balance artist can keep his bike upright whilst stationery and spinning the wheels but most of us put a foot down and start to walk. One can only "spin" for about half a crank revolution before you run out of momentum and balance.

Don't attempt to get an education on friction from bicycle blogs, magazines and lore. Why not do a quick recap of your schoolday theory on friction, get to understand what he co-efficient of friction is and, look up the coefficients of friction for different materials in different combinations? These are published online and make for interesting thought. At least then you'll have some knowledge and understanding that pros or bicycle magazine writers don't have.
 
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Citius

Guest
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Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
Interesting thread, thanks.

And there was me thinking that the only reason for directional indications on tyres (and inner tubes) was so you could match up the location of a hole in an inner with the tyre to search for the pointy thing.
 

youngoldbloke

The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
Interesting thread, thanks.

And there was me thinking that the only reason for directional indications on tyres (and inner tubes) was so you could match up the location of a hole in an inner with the tyre to search for the pointy thing.
I've never noticed an arrow on an inner tube. Just line up the tyre logo with the valve to help locate punctures.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I've never noticed an arrow on an inner tube. Just line up the tyre logo with the valve to help locate punctures.
You probably haven't because there isn't one, until you draw it on with a ballpoint or wax pencil. I always do this so that when I get a puncture it's easy to locate the right area of the tyre to search as you know which way round the inner was when it got punctured (provided you've lined the makers name up with the valve hole as you say). But that's way off topic.

But back on topic ... The stuff about tread patterns on road tyres above is quite enlightening.
 

zacklaws

Guru
Location
Beverley
As for the story of ripping grooves in your slicks in spinning uphill. Well... Wishful thinking I say. If your wheel has no traction, there will not be any abrasion in the tyre since abrasion equals traction. Further, once you lose traction, you essentially lose all forward motion which you require to balance. In theory a circus balance artist can keep his bike upright whilst stationery and spinning the wheels but most of us put a foot down and start to walk. One can only "spin" for about half a crank revolution before you run out of momentum and balance.
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Spin your wheels on a rough surface and it will rip grooves into your tyres, because I have done it and seen the evidence, especcially if your a heavy rider like me.

And your theory of not being able to balance if you have no forward momentum and being able to "spin" for only half a crank before running out of momentum and balance holds no water either, you have no forward momentum on rollers, but you are still spinning, can still turn the cranks and still able to balance.

I once stopped dead on a steep hill and was spinning frantically hoping to get momentum again, when I looked down at my back wheel as I thought my chain had come off, I was in a small pothole full of chippings etc with nothing to get any grip. I had to unclip eventually though to get onto a firmer surface.
 

Citius

Guest
And your theory of not being able to balance if you have no forward momentum and being able to "spin" for only half a crank before running out of momentum and balance holds no water either, you have no forward momentum on rollers, but you are still spinning, can still turn the cranks and still able to balance.

You balance on rollers because of the gyro effect of the wheels.
 

zacklaws

Guru
Location
Beverley
You balance on rollers because of the gyro effect of the wheels.

But you still have the gyro effect when your spinning on a steep hill, wet or icy surface, not as fast but enough to maintain balance long enough till you start moving again or till you make a decision to unclip.
 

e-rider

Banned member
Location
South West
If a tyre needs to be fitted a certain way around, it normally has "direction of rotation" indicator on the side wall. Some tyres such as the Conti GP 4 Seasons can be put on either way, it makes no difference.
GP4 seasons have directional arrows now, but I've had them with arrows in both directions! This is simply because on a narrow race tyre it really makes no difference except for the way it looks. MTB tyres are a different matter though so observe the arrows.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
You balance on rollers because of the gyro effect of the wheels.

Don't think the church is with you on that: "Gyroscopic forces are not important for the stability of a bicycle"
The way we stay upright on a moving bike is by active control through steering ie balance (and stability through head tube angle and trail distance). So rollers need to be wide enough for one to achieve that.

http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh/gyrobike.htm

I once stopped dead on a steep hill and was spinning frantically hoping to get momentum again,
Think it would be entertaining to have a video of @zacklaws spinning his way to nowhere, wearing a groove in the tyre (tread or no tread). Logically (and perhaps practically) if you can do a track stand, you can spin stationary in the way he describes. Suspect it's harder though, and so's the ground when you don't make it and fail to unclip in time. Suspect we've all climbed a marginal slippery narrow 1:5 hill with leaves on: the skill is to balance confidence you'll make it with the decision to unclip. Some are more gung-ho than others: @zacklaws chapeau.

Nothing to do with thread title btw.
 
Location
Loch side.
Spin your wheels on a rough surface and it will rip grooves into your tyres, because I have done it and seen the evidence, especcially if your a heavy rider like me.

You contradict the physics of the situation. With more weight, there is more traction, which makes it less likely that the wheels will spin if you are a heavy rider and the weight is over the rear wheel. Most of us have slipped a wheel when there is poor traction and spinning a wheel where there is good traction is another story altogether. Humans can't do it. Traction is implied by gouging grooves in the tyre. There is no other way - either there is traction or there is not and the tyre will either slip without damage or move forward. You have to present evidence of said grooves and give a reasonable explanation of how this happened. Notice that I avoided the word spin and used slip. Spin would imply some revolutions of the wheel whereas a slip or a skid would be the quarter or so revolution that would be typical of your power stroke, which is only about half a crank revolution at most. Spinning past dead centre to and bottom is not doable in these situations.


And your theory of not being able to balance if you have no forward momentum and being able to "spin" for only half a crank before running out of momentum and balance holds no water either, you have no forward momentum on rollers, but you are still spinning, can still turn the cranks and still able to balance.

You cannot compare balancing on a roller with balancing on the road when you have no forward momentum. Humans on bicycles balance by way of two distinctive modes.

1) When riding forward with speed of walking pace or faster, we balance by steering into the fall. In other words, as you start to fall over to the left, you steer left and the centre of gravity is exactly below you again. You do this continuously when you ride. It is a one-dimensional version of balancing broomstick on your hand. Evidence of this can be seen when wet tyre marks show the characteristic criss-cross pattern of the front and back wheel. You cannot ride perfectly straight but have to fall left and right all the time and steer into it. On the rollers you balance in this mode. You continually steer into the fall to counter it. If the rollers were very narrow it would be impossible to ride them.

2) When doing a trackstand.

In this mode we balance like a tightrope artist by moving our bodies backwards and forwards over the centre of gravity in order to counter a fall. In this mode you cannot counter a strong fall because you cannot move left or right far enough as your wheels are planted in position.

There is a distinct transition from mode 1 to mode two when balancing on a bike since there is no position or at least a very small margin, where balance is a blend of the two. This is evident when going up a steep hill and riding in a rut. If the rut does not allow you to move left or right, you fall.

I once stopped dead on a steep hill and was spinning frantically hoping to get momentum again, when I looked down at my back wheel as I thought my chain had come off, I was in a small pothole full of chippings etc with nothing to get any grip. I had to unclip eventually though to get onto a firmer surface.

Your description of this is not accurate. Spinning frantically implies your cranks were revolving whilst you and your bike were stationery. This is not real. It is completely unlike the roller scenario because with the wheels not rolling forward, you cannot steer into the fall and thus cannot stay upright. Suggesting that you did a trackstand whilst spinning the crank brings up an equally unrealistic scenario.
 
You cannot compare balancing on a roller with balancing on the road when you have no forward momentum. Humans on bicycles balance by way of two distinctive modes.

1) When riding forward with speed of walking pace or faster, we balance by steering into the fall. In other words, as you start to fall over to the left, you steer left and the centre of gravity is exactly below you again. You do this continuously when you ride. It is a one-dimensional version of balancing broomstick on your hand. Evidence of this can be seen when wet tyre marks show the characteristic criss-cross pattern of the front and back wheel. You cannot ride perfectly straight but have to fall left and right all the time and steer into it. On the rollers you balance in this mode. You continually steer into the fall to counter it. If the rollers were very narrow it would be impossible to ride them.

In addition to this, 2 wheel tandem layout vehicles are self correcting. The rake and trail forces the front wheel to be pulled straight as you move forward (as can be seen on shopping trolleys). This helps with balance too.

It is why the roller position set up is important when riding on them so that you still get the corrective assistance of the geometry. Let go of a bike and it will fall over. Push and it will go straight (ish) and stay up on its own till it loses momentum.
 
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