Difference between riding and training?

[redcard]

Just read this on Cycling Weekly on FB:

"I am still recovering from the kicking I received on our lunch time ride. Despite weekly mileage of 150-200 miles I am a long way from fit. Riding is no substitute for training however much you kid yourself."

Is there really a big difference between regular riding and structured training for the regular cyclist?

 

[amaferanga]

Yes.

 

[dodgy]

Absolutely 100%.

 

[MattHB]

I think that if you just regular ride you don't necessarily set yourself high enough targets as you would do with proper training.

 

[GrasB]

Is there really a big difference between regular riding and structured training for the regular cyclist?

Riding; going for a nice ride on the road not to hard not to easy just banging in the miles, in a scheduled training regime they would be called 'base miles'. This keeps your base line fitness up & you can do it in a social context. Most people will be sub-consciously working in the average power range between 50% (train term: recovery ride) & 80% (training term: hard base miles ride) maximal effort, which is typically faster than you'd think, for that ride length.

Training; you go out with a specific agenda to achieve specific things. Sure it may be a base miles ride or even a really easy recovery ride. However more often than not you'll have very specific things to do like intervals - 2 min hard pace, 1 min recovery & do that maybe 10 times. It will hurt - your lungs will be gasping for oxygen, your legs will burn & anything vaguely social will be impossible.

Taken to the extreme some of the really high power training would be simply unsafe on the road. Somewhere I saw a picture of Hoy doing a training session that ended up with him falling off the bike onto a crash mat at the side of the bike. For me it's normal for me to get blurred/tunnel vision & disorientation to the point that I need audible alarms to tell me when to stop & I'm struggling to remember to stop going at the very loud beep! Some times on the really short intervals the only thing that is keeping me upright is the turbo trainer, had I been on the open road I've hit the deck at >40mph well if I hadn't disappeared of the side of the road in one direction or another.

 

[cyberknight]

I think that if you just regular ride you don't necessarily set yourself high enough targets as you would do with proper training.

+1
I can cycle all week to work at a reasonable pace and see no benefit in the terms of increased fitness , the last month i have given it the beans and start to add sprint intervals and power work and i can already feel a bit stronger on the hills .

 

[MattHB]

+1
I can cycle all week to work at a reasonable pace and see no benefit in the terms of increased fitness , the last month i have given it the beans and start to add sprint intervals and power work and i can already feel a bit stronger on the hills .

I need to be doing far more of this too

 

[Alien8]

Is there really a big difference between regular riding and structured training for the regular cyclist?

If day-after-day you ride x-miles at y-intensity you will become very comfortable at riding x-miles at y-intensity.

If you want to become fitter, stronger, more powerful, you need to up the intensity in some way in your riding, eg by structured training.

At the end of the day it's all horses-for-courses but there is no getting away from no-pain-no-gain.

 

[amaferanga]

Training is about overloading your body to trigger adaptions. You intentionally do too much over a period of weeks to trigger the adaptions (and then you rest up for a few days doing easy 'regular riding'). The intensity of the training will determine which system (e.g. aerobic, anaerobic, neuromuscular, etc.) is targeted.

There's no need whatsoever to take training to the extreme of almost passing out as suggested above - you can get the same adaptions from a more measured approach and probably spend more time at intensity X than you would do from pushing yourself that hard. The aim is to get the most from the session while not forgetting that you'll need to do more training the next day and the day after that....

And training isn't just about doing some random intervals every few days. To get the benefit from training you need to plan it at least a few weeks in advance and build up the stress from doing slightly more time in the saddle or the same time, but at a higher intensity. Of course you need to be flexible and be prepared to move things around based on how you feel and when everyday life gets in the way, but there needs to be a plan. Such plans can be put together yourself if you're prepared to do a bit of reading and research or can be bought for not very much. Or if you want to get really serious then pay a coach upwards of £50 a month to do it all for you.

 

[amaferanga]

If day-after-day you ride x-miles at y-intensity you will become very comfortable at riding x-miles at y-intensity.

If you want to become fitter, stronger, more powerful, you need to up the intensity in some way in your riding, eg by structured training.

At the end of the day it's all horses-for-courses but there is no getting away from no-pain-no-gain.

+1

 

[lukesdad]

Hang on a minute, the quote needs to be taken in context. It all depends on what you are trying to acheive.

 

[GrasB]

There's no need whatsoever to take training to the extreme of almost passing out as suggested above - you can get the same adaptions from a more measured approach and probably spend more time at intensity X than you would do from pushing yourself that hard. The aim is to get the most from the session while not forgetting that you'll need to do more training the next day and the day after that....

That is measured, scheduled & carefully balanced with other training. The sustained duration single pull 15min runs aren't close to passing out but rather the mental stress of the run, dealing with the pain means distracting my self but also keeping the effort level up, causes certain symptoms. This mental fatigue basically shuts down certain sensory input, for me it's visual input for other riders it's other things (a friend says he has to look at his feet & hands all the time because he shuts out his sense of touch). The disorientation is an artefact of self distraction & forgetting to stop is because I'm so focused on keeping my power up that I forget there's a finish line.

My power sessions are close to passing out but they're is once every 4 weeks with scheduled build-up & build-down days. The results have been very good & over the last 10 months have seen my sub-30s maximal power production almost double. At some point the gains will tail off & it will become wasted training time but until then it's worth doing. Every session produces noticeable changes in the following 3 weekly tabata interval sessions & in the ability for me to blast up short inclines. Yes it's extreme & yes a lot of people aren't willing to put the effort in but if you are willing to take it to the extreme there are gains to be found.

 

[totallyfixed]

That is measured, scheduled & carefully balanced with other training. The sustained duration single pull 15min runs aren't close to passing out but rather the mental stress of the run, dealing with the pain means distracting my self but also keeping the effort level up, causes certain symptoms. This mental fatigue basically shuts down certain sensory input, for me it's visual input for other riders it's other things (a friend says he has to look at his feet & hands all the time because he shuts out his sense of touch). The disorientation is an artefact of self distraction & forgetting to stop is because I'm so focused on keeping my power up that I forget there's a finish line.

My power sessions are close to passing out but they're is once every 4 weeks with scheduled build-up & build-down days. The results have been very good & over the last 10 months have seen my sub-30s maximal power production almost double. At some point the gains will tail off & it will become wasted training time but until then it's worth doing. Every session produces noticeable changes in the following 3 weekly tabata interval sessions & in the ability for me to blast up short inclines. Yes it's extreme & yes a lot of people aren't willing to put the effort in but if you are willing to take it to the extreme there are gains to be found.

Given the amount of high intensity training you do [I coach], what are your best time trial results for, 10's 25's & 50's and how long is your tapering period for a targeted event?
If you don't mind me asking, what age category do you come under and if you don't want to answer that, can you say if you are a vet?

 

[amaferanga]

My power sessions are close to passing out but they're is once every 4 weeks with scheduled build-up & build-down days. The results have been very good & over the last 10 months have seen my sub-30s maximal power production almost double. At some point the gains will tail off & it will become wasted training time but until then it's worth doing. Every session produces noticeable changes in the following 3 weekly tabata interval sessions & in the ability for me to blast up short inclines. Yes it's extreme & yes a lot of people aren't willing to put the effort in but if you are willing to take it to the extreme there are gains to be found.

What is your 30s power (W and W/kg)? What are you measuring it with? You'd probably have seen the same gains from doing more regular sessions without trying to push quite so hard. You don't need to be setting power bests to see improvement in your best power over a given duration. So riding for (say) 5 hours a week at 85-90% FTP will see significant gains in your FTP. Maybe you know all this, but its not clear from your posts?

Also, what are you training for? 30s power gains can be made quickly, but you also lose them quickly so there's really no point in working on it through the winter (in fact youd' probably expect to lose most of the gains over a period of 4 weeks). Best wait until you're about to start racing and do some sessions to put the icing on the cake so to speak. But if racing for you is time trials then probably best to focus on FTP and VO2max.

 

[GrasB]

Given the amount of high intensity training you do [I coach], what are your best time trial results for, 10's 25's & 50's and how long is your tapering period for a targeted event?
If you don't mind me asking, what age category do you come under and if you don't want to answer that, can you say if you are a vet?

I'm in my early 30s & as you know I don't race/TT in the UK. I'll drop the HIT session the week before I leave the UK. Once I'm out in Italy my training is chaotic at best. I'll do solo rides throw in MTBing 1 or 2 days/week, a ride with my wife plus a hard club ride on once a week.

Best times? Well being european they do things in km not miles & I've not entered a TT over a nominal 40km
10km hill climb: 9.83km, 7.2% ave gradient - 27m 46s
20km 'flat' TT (<0.75% altitude gain): 20.65km, 138m altitude gain - 27m 2s
20km 'hilly' TT (0.75%<>3% altitude gain): 19.88km, 412m altitude gain - 32m 28s
40km TT: 41.28km, 381m altitude gain - 1h 2m 31s

amaferanga, This was the state of play when I joined a very competitive club near my in-laws in Italy - I basically had a pursuiters power profile but it was just too extreme. Fast forward to now & the whole profile has stepped up a notch with FTP & sub-30s not so massively down on my medium duration power levels. The big shift for this was going for high power intervals & the maximal effort 15 min sessions but there were also shifts in my circuit training. I'm working under his guidance & things seem to be going well.