Daytime running lights

[winjim]

I have a garmin varia radar so always have a rear light on
if I didn’t I would still have a rear flashing light ,might do no good but certainly does no harm

Certainly does no harm? Did you read the thread? There are suggestions that it may well do harm, which you need to address if you're claiming certainty.

 

[Drago]

Indeed, one cannot take "at worst it does not harm" as gospel when it comes to safety, because there are so many unintended consequences to consider. If it doesn't have a proven safety benefit, don't do it in the name of safety.

 

[mjr]

Keeping to DRLs, I struggle to see the problem.
Side lights are 5w, DRLs are 21w headlamps are I believe 50w.

Do car DRLs have to have their beam shaped like headlights? It seems like they're indiscriminate wide beams but I don't remember the regs and it could be bad maintenance like all the wonky headlights but it seems like dazzling DRLs are even more common.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

even within this discussion by cyclists, theres been confusion as when to use lights and what to use

I've taken the time to read through this whole thread again and can't find any posts to support that, do you have examples? There is mention of a complaint regarding drivers who fail to switch off rear fog lights when no longer required, and there are those who were unaware that headlamps were unneccessary on roads with a 30mph limit and street lighting.

given I'm a careful driver, I have NO problem seeing everything and everyone

That rather suggests that DRLs are unnecessary.

But within your reply lies the real answer. Instead of compensating for the general poor standard of driving by compelling the use of DRLs, let's improve driving standards and the driving test regime so that that people treat driving as something that requires focus, concentration and attention.

We also need to get rid of the attitude that once the driving test is passed the Highway Code book gets chucked in the bin and no further training is required. Driving licences should be much harder to get and far easier to lose.

 

[Jody]

Do car DRLs have to have their beam shaped like headlights? It seems like they're indiscriminate wide beams but I don't remember the regs and it could be bad maintenance like all the wonky headlights but it seems like dazzling DRLs are even more common.

They are only a marker light so don't need a beam pattern

 

[gbb]

Do car DRLs have to have their beam shaped like headlights? It seems like they're indiscriminate wide beams but I don't remember the regs and it could be bad maintenance like all the wonky headlights but it seems like dazzling DRLs are even more common.

There's obviously differing quality or types of DRLs. Mine are simply 21w bulbs instead of 5w, and while the light emitted is of course brighter....its not bright bright or dazzling, simply based on the fact its still only 21w.
Audis etc obviously have a different system, it'd be interesting to see what wattage they're putting out, focused / beam directed etc or not.

I've taken the time to read through this whole thread again and can't find any posts to support that, do you have examples? There is mention of a complaint regarding drivers who fail to switch off rear fog lights when no longer required, and there are those who were unaware that headlamps were unneccessary on roads with a 30mph limit and street lighting.

That rather suggests that DRLs are unnecessary.

But within your reply lies the real answer. Instead of compensating for the general poor standard of driving by compelling the use of DRLs, let's improve driving standards and the driving test regime so that that people treat driving as something that requires focus, concentration and attention.

We also need to get rid of the attitude that once the driving test is passed the Highway Code book gets chucked in the bin and no further training is required. Driving licences should be much harder to get and far easier to lose.

They're the examples i'm thinking of. I guess the point is there are millions of drivers out there, many 'doing their own thing'. Could you argue that DRLs give some essense of standardisation ?
I'd agree, DRLs in normal circumstances are unneccessary, but agree with my SIL, as a lorry driver, DRLs are a whole different, positive thing in some conditions. Its maybe impossible to have one positive without a negative...or vice versa.

Improve driving standards, quite agree, concentration, concentration, concentration is my byeword to my DIL.

 

[icowden]

Indeed, one cannot take "at worst it does not harm" as gospel when it comes to safety, because there are so many unintended consequences to consider. If it doesn't have a proven safety benefit, don't do it in the name of safety.

So it's better to not be safer by accident and only be safer deliberately if you know that the thing you think will make you safer has been proven not to make things more dangerous in the way that you don't think that they will be, but only due to unintended consequences that you couldn't anticipate or test for?

So, if you inadvertently save yourself from injury using equipment that hasn't been proven to make you safer in every situation, but which also hasn't been proven to make things more dangerous in any situation, is that a bad thing... or is it a good thing?

To be honest, whenever I have seen testing it tends to be focused on testing whether the thing you are testing does what you want it to do in the way that you want it to do it, and very little peripheral testing is done to make sure that it doesn't do other stuff. Things often get re-tested when discoveries are made that might weaken or invalidate that first set of testing, so at least for the scenarios that were tested you are likely to be safer than in those scenarios that couldn't be anticipated and therefore weren't tested.

 

[Jody]

There's obviously differing quality or types of DRLs. Mine are simply 21w bulbs instead of 5w, and while the light emitted is of course brighter....its not bright bright or dazzling, simply based on the fact its still only 21w.
Audis etc obviously have a different system, it'd be interesting to see what wattage they're putting out, focused / beam directed etc or not

Surely wattage is irrelevant. Xenon headlights (1st gen) were only 35 watt. My Cree LED bike light is only 10 watt and the output is still enough to dazzle people

 

[glasgowcyclist]

They're the examples i'm thinking of.

Those are examples where people have used more lighting than was required, not a tendency to go around unlit when lights really were needed, and therefore not a problem that is alleviated by the use of DRLs.

DRLs are a whole different, positive thing in some conditions.

Exactly, in some conditions, so we should be ensuring that drivers are capable of recognising those conditions and acting appropriately. Why impose blanket use of a device that isn't needed all of the time? Isn't it saying that drivers are too poorly trained to realise when lights would be useful other than in the hours of darkness?

 

[gbb]

Exactly, in some conditions, so we should be ensuring that drivers are capable of recognising those conditions and acting appropriately. Why impose blanket use of a device that isn't needed all of the time? Isn't it saying that drivers are too poorly trained to realise when lights would be useful other than in the hours of darkness?

I think we can all agree with that one...and perhaps there lies the crux of the matter, authorites trying to 'automate or engineer out stupid'. Is that taking the easy route ? its what we do at work, there's a problem with educating people not to do something specific, its easier to engineer out the problem than educate people over and over again

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I think we can all agree with that one...and perhaps there lies the crux of the matter, authorites trying to 'automate or engineer out stupid'. Is that taking the easy route ? its what we do at work, there's a problem with educating people not to do something specific, its easier to engineer out the problem than educate people over and over again

It probably is but it's only tinkering with the edges and, to some degree, making certain situations worse.

If governments were serious about reducing road harm by engineering out stupid, they could introduce telematics for all motor vehicles and a 70mph speed governor. I suspect either of those would have a far greater effect on road safety than DRLs but that's a whole thread of its own.

 

[Mark pallister]

Certainly does no harm? Did you read the thread? There are suggestions that it may well do harm, which you need to address if you're claiming certainty.

I don’t believe them

 

[mjr]

I don’t believe them

Because...?

 

[Drago]

Don't worry about it MJR. There are those that think about what they're doing, and those that do it for the sake of doing it. We know which camp we fall into.

 

[Mark pallister]

Because...?

I don’t want to