Dangerous driver?

[Pale Rider]

I'm surprised Tesco's own transport manager was not prosecuted for failing to identify the driver, as the nominated TMs usually have such responsibility with large fleets.

I thought that odd.

Generally, the request to name the driver would have gone to the registered keeper, which may be Tesco or may be a lease company, but it would have been passed to the fleet manager.

Presumably, he named the two employees as those in charge of the vehicle at the time.

The footage, and a statement from the passenger, ought to be enough to establish who was driving at a careless trial.

Part of the problem is we don't have an accurate court report saying who was charged with what.

All we've got is the victim's understanding of what went on, which as I've seen many times, is often far from complete.

 

[icowden]

It seems very odd, in that even if there are two people in the van and they refuse to say who was driving, there is clear footage of one person exiting from the passenger side of the vehicle, which means that the driver *has* to be the other person. The footage shows that there was no way they could have swapped places in that time.

 

[mjr]

That is dangerous in my opinion.

He drives past the cyclist and any clear thinking person would slow down and let the cyclist past.

There was no way this driver was going to let the cyclist past.

In Denmark it would be a ban and and a retest.

I agree with you and wish we were like Denmark but I also agree with @Pale Rider insofar as a UK jury or judge would not consider this "far below" competence enough to qualify as "dangerous" in law, which is a disgrace and damning indictment of how pathetic UK driving standards and laws are.

 

[raleighnut]

A driver like this working for tesco could undermine tesco more than any good the millions they spend on advertising? Tesco prices may not cripple you but there drivers might? Or look what happens if you dont carry a tesco clubcard?

Oh I don't know, "We stop at nothing to deliver your stuff" might go down well with some people.

 

[mjr]

A driver like this working for tesco could undermine tesco more than any good the millions they spend on advertising? Tesco prices may not cripple you but there drivers might? Or look what happens if you dont carry a tesco clubcard?

I would enjoy someone making that into a meme for sharing, with road.cc link to the full story, but don't have time to do it myself today.

 

[winjim]

I'm surprised Tesco's own transport manager was not prosecuted for failing to identify the driver, as the nominated TMs usually have such responsibility with large fleets.

From this tweet it appears that they did identify the driver, but he refused to cooperate.


View: https://twitter.com/Broadsword999/status/1226866454030684161?s=19

 

[winjim]

Oh I don't know, "We stop at nothing to deliver your stuff" might go down well with some people.

Every little helpS

 

[midlife]

Slightly off topic I've never seen a passenger in a tesco delivery van round these parts, is it different in cities?

 

[Milkfloat]

Slightly off topic I've never seen a passenger in a tesco delivery van round these parts, is it different in cities?

I assumed that was the driver who just slid across to the passenger side after the accident incident.

 

[tom73]

Pale rider is right to point out he's not been very cleaver. Convictions for dishonesty have quite a few areas of consequences in employment some are not alway's clear when you are applying. Not to mention in clear in black and white that's he's willing to dishonest. Which as it is even enough for some to turn you down.
He may find it harder to move on with then a sight forward driving conviction.

 

[raleighnut]

I assumed that was the driver who just slid across to the passenger side after the accident incident.

I wonder if they are like some other delivery trucks that have no passenger seat to enable the driver easy exit to deliver.

He may find it harder to move on with then a sight forward driving conviction

Maybe he was driving on someone else's Licence, bloke I knew drove a breakdown/recovery truck for 20+yrs and never had a Driving Licence.

 

[icowden]

I agree with you and wish we were like Denmark but I also agree with @Pale Rider insofar as a UK jury or judge would not consider this "far below" competence enough to qualify as "dangerous" in law, which is a disgrace and damning indictment of how pathetic UK driving standards and laws are.

To me, it doesn't really look like the driver took any notice of the cycles at all. He was in his lane, they were in their lane. He hasn't taken notice because of the lanes, and I am guessing he is also distracted, chatting to his colleague, almost misses his turn, so brakes late and turns in, without using his mirror or thinking.

Looking at the definitions of careless vs dangerous the distinction seems to be one of intention. So if you are deliberately dangerously overtaking, or deliberately driving a defective car, or deliberately driving after taking drugs or alcohol then that qualifies as "far below" the standard of a careful and competent driver. On the other hand, without an intention to cause a problem, it seems to get classified as "careless".

@mjr says that he wishes we were like Denmark. @steveindenmark says it would be a ban and a retest. Well, that's also what can be imposed in the UK for both careless and dangerous driving, so I don't understand the distinction. The key difference between the two offences is that dangerous driving can carry a prison sentence and a larger fine.

The weakness it seems to me is that the offences only look at the behaviour of the driver and don't really take into account the seriousness of the result of their actions. Hence I have always thought that there should be a reparations element to the sentence, perhaps in liaison with the victim (mediated of course). For example if, when turning left he had hit a car, the chances of injury are very slim. It's the same action though. For the cyclist the consequences could have been much more severe. Luckily he landed clear of the vehicle and any other vehicles and his helmet prevented his head whacking the ground.

Maybe a compulsory cycle safety course where the driver has to go around on a bike for a day (or on some sort of tandem if not a cyclist) with a supervisor so they get a much better understanding of how their driving affects cyclists, along with reparations to the victim...

 

[Profpointy]

I can't help feeling that the very existence of the cycle lane actually increases the risk of this kind of thing, particularly as it's a different colour. In the driver's mind the other lane and any cyclists in it no longer figure in any thinking. Maybe if he'd consciously had to overtake the cyclist in the actual road he'd have been somewhat less likely to drive straight across him

 

[tom73]

I wonder if they are like some other delivery trucks that have no passenger seat to enable the driver easy exit to deliver.



Maybe he was driving on someone else's Licence, bloke I knew drove a breakdown/recovery truck for 20+yrs and never had a Driving Licence.

Yes that happens for sure though any fleet management requires you to prove it's your. Not to mention employment law requires employers to do ID checks and have on file ID checks have been done. Or it's a nice bit fine. Tesco maybe many things but having unknown staff working for them I can't see happening.

 

[Racing roadkill]

If you watch the full recording ( all the way from the ASL on Millbank, by Vauxhall bridge) you’ll see how long the driver could see the cyclist for, and the fact the driver had to overtake the cyclist, so knew he was there. I wouldn’t have reacted quite so calmly as that rider did.