Cyclists down a30

[vernon]

I hope they take his licence away, and don't listen to any pleas that he needs to carry on driving HGVs. This man needs to continue to work as a driver like Rolf Harris needs continued access to children because he's always worked as a children's entertainer...

A bit off key....

 

[steveindenmark]

The fact that he has continued to drive like a dickhead AFTER killing 2 men is astounding and I hope that really goes against him when they sentence him.

Steve

 

[Crankarm]

We all know the severity of sentence this git should get but in reality he won't. Sentencing for drivers who kill and those that kill cyclists and pedestrians is pathetic. He should be facing a life time driving ban and a prison sentence 8-10 years given the nature of his offending and this is not an isolated offence. And he must serve 8-10 years not 40% of this which in all likelihood he will serve for pleading guilty in advance.

Terrible, terrible.

Why doesn't Dave make a statement in Parliament that he will instruct courts to give much tougher sentences to drivers who kill or seriously injure cyclists and peds? If he thought it would win him votes he might ………. It would act as a deterrent to drivers who think they can intimidate and bully other road users, driving dangerously around cyclists and peds with little fear of being caught and if caught joke sentences that are an inconvenience rather than a punishment.

 

[Beebo]

7 and half years, plus an extra year for the other offence committed whilst on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-28983049

 

[fimm]

"Prosecutors said Palmer had not had enough rest periods between shifts at work and had falsified rest records.
As a result, the cyclists were "mown down", they said.
Palmer had pleaded guilty at a previous hearing to two counts of causing death by dangerous driving. He was sentenced to seven-and-a-half years for each count, to be served concurrently.
Palmer had also admitted a charge of dangerous driving in relation to a crash on the A30 at Whiddon Down near Okehampton, Devon, which happened in September 2013, 11 weeks after the fatal collision.
The court heard he had been on bail while police were investigating the cyclists' deaths at the time of the second crash.
He was sentenced to one year for that offence, to be served consecutively"
He was also banned from driving for - wait for it - 10 years. The rules are that the ban starts from now, not from the point he is released from prison.

 

[Crankarm]

"Prosecutors said Palmer had not had enough rest periods between shifts at work and had falsified rest records.
As a result, the cyclists were "mown down", they said.
Palmer had pleaded guilty at a previous hearing to two counts of causing death by dangerous driving. He was sentenced to seven-and-a-half years for each count, to be served concurrently.
Palmer had also admitted a charge of dangerous driving in relation to a crash on the A30 at Whiddon Down near Okehampton, Devon, which happened in September 2013, 11 weeks after the fatal collision.
The court heard he had been on bail while police were investigating the cyclists' deaths at the time of the second crash.
He was sentenced to one year for that offence, to be served consecutively"
He was also banned from driving for - wait for it - 10 years. The rules are that the ban starts from now, not from the point he is released from prison.

Sentencing of these dangerous feckers is a joke.

 

[glenn forger]

Corporate manslaughter for the firm bosses, they knew he had no sleep and sent him out in the lorry.

 

[Garethgas]

Corporate manslaughter for the firm bosses, they knew he had no sleep and sent him out in the lorry.

This I find quite staggering that there is no mention of the employers too.
Whilst the driver has now been dealt with, I can't believe that his employees weren't complicit in this.

 

[fimm]

http://road.cc/content/news/128916-lorry-driver-jailed-8-12-years-killing-lejog-charity-riders
This time you should read the comments, as someone who knows what they are talking about (or appears to, at any rate) is saying some useful things.

The other case that was in the news recently was the man who killed a cyclist while looking at photos on his mobile phone. He pleaded not guilty, was found guilty and was given a 5 year sentence with a 10 year ban. So Palmer, who pleaded guilty, and was given 7.5 years per death plus a 10 year ban, appears to have been sentenced as harshly as the judge is allowed to, if I'm understanding the person on the road.cc thread correctly (and they are correct in what they are saying).

I feel less angry now. Given some sentaces that have been handed out, that actually is not too bad, especially as he pleaded guilty and is entitled to a reduction to his sentence for that (I don't make the rules, and I may or may not agree with them, but that is the rule).

 

[srw]

Sentencing of these dangerous feckers is a joke.

I had a private bet with myself. I won.

As the comments @fimm linked to point out, in the context of English law this is a very harsh sentence. I've just had a quick scan through the sentencing guidelines (http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/) on the CPS website, which puts it into context.

As it happens, I think we tend to sentence too harshly - in an underfunded criminal justice system nothing is served by locking people away except to turn them into better criminals - but within current guidelines this driver has got a sentence commensurate with the crime. As do most people sentenced.

 

[benb]

The custodial sentence seems OK, but I do wonder what people need to do to receive a lifetime driving ban.

 

[Tommy2]

2 sentences to be served side by side? So he's only serving one sentence? What's the point in that?

Why not give him seven years but serve all seven consecutively so he's only in for 1 year?

Or am I missing something, should it not be added to the end?

 

[jefmcg]

2 sentences to be served side by side? So he's only serving one sentence? What's the point in that?

Why not give him seven years but serve all seven consecutively so he's only in for 1 year?

Or am I missing something, should it not be added to the end?

this makes sense to me: one act lead to two crimes being committed. He was sentenced for the act. The judge decided that 7 1/2 years was the proper sentence for the act, and obviously both crimes should carry the same sentence. If it was 3 1/4 years for each, consecutively, then someone who committed the same offence in every way but only happened to kill one person would only get half the sentence.

 

[fimm]

Here's "The Cycling Silk" on the subject:
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/further-court-update-r-v-robert-palmer.html
and here, perhaps more interestingly, is the CTC on the subject of the employer's responsibilities:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/blog/rhiaweston/lorry-driver-sentenced-spotlight-needed-operators

From the CTC article:
"The company Palmer worked for – Frys Logistics – had its operating licence revoked in December 2013, six months after the fatal collision on the A30. CTC suspects the decision to withdraw the licence was in large part based on the involvement of the company in the incident in which Andrew McMenigall and Toby Wallace were killed. In order to continue after the operating licence had been rescinded, the company’s owners set up a new company with a tenuously different name – Frys Transport. It seems all a company has to do to carry on business as usual when it loses its operating licence is to set itself up again under a different name."
Which is pretty apalling, IMHO.

 

[glenn forger]

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/20151117...ety?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Rogue operators licence finally revoked

"By far the worst case I have seen since I started as a Traffic Commissioner in 2007," were the words used yesterday by Traffic Commissioner Sarah Bell as she revoked the HGV operator's licence for Frys Logistics Limited, whose lack of regard to the rules she believed "contributed to the death of Andrew McMenigall and Toby Wallace".

Revoking the licence as from midnight on 23 December she also disqualified Transport Manager Mark Darren Fry, the sole director of the company, from acting as a Transport Manager for 10 years, and both the company and Mr Fry from holding an operator's licence or being involved in the management of HGVs for the same period, saying this was "the longest period of disqualification she had imposed by far" as a Commissioner.

Land's End to John O'Groats charity cyclists

CTC has reported on the tragic deaths of Andrew McMenigall and Toby Wallace previously within our Road Justice Campaign. They were just 40 miles into a charity ride from Land's End to John O'Groats in July 2013 when they were killed near Newquay as HGV driver Robert Palmer drove into them after falling asleep at the wheel.

Palmer pleased guilty at Truro Crown Court in September 2014 and was given a prison sentence of eight-and-a-half years for causing their deaths by dangerous driving and a separate offence of dangerous driving seven weeks later when he drove into the rear of another vehicle.

Palmer worked for Frys Logistics Limited who regularly allowed him to drive while exhausted after working consecutive shifts, repairing vehicles in their yard followed by a shift driving a HGV, ignoring the risks posed by sleepy drivers.

CTC has been campaigning to strengthen the enforcement of lorry operators such as Frys, has made specific submissions (attached below) on HGV regulation to the ongoing Transport Committee Inquiry into road traffic law enforcement, and will be giving evidence on this to that Committee next week.

Reprehensible approach to road safety

Describing their approach as "reprehensible" the Commissioner concluded that the operator had knowingly allowed drivers to breach the driver hour regulations on a regular basis. Following the tragic events in July 2013 the Driver Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) identified that the operator's drivers were breaking the rules, but despite the appalling consequences for Andrew and Toby, the company, controlled by Mr Fry, displayed no contrition, remorse, or ability to learn from past mistakes.