Cyclists and headphones.

[mickle]

Youre not answering my question.

 

[Hawk]

Youre not answering my question.

A few examples of how I used hearing recently:

I am behind a moving car which is indicating right to move out due to parked car in our lane. There is a gap on my right. I look over my shoulder and indicate. I am now looking forward and know what the car infront is doing (slowing?). I hear the rev'ing of an engine in otherwise free-moving traffic, behind me. I have deduced that the chap in the outside lane behind me is a cockwomble and isn't about to let me out so can go straight to plan B (e.g stop and wait for next space). A quick glance can confirm but I heard it coming two seconds ago anyway.

I can hear an emergency siren in the distance. I turn round and see an ambulance around 400 metres away from me as I wait at lights near a hospital. Ambulance has moved in to oncoming lane of a 30mph single carriageway, behind me on my right. Hospital is at same junction, on my left. Would be extremely difficult for drivers to see in mirrors. I pull a few metres ahead of ASL and signal to three lanes of traffic to wait up til the ambulance is through and and turned left (across our path), the lights turn green whilst the ambulance is still 300m away. We'd have gone on green light if I had spotted the ambulance a few seconds later, thus ambulance would have had to left hook three lanes of moving traffic effectively.

Group ride, we have constant overtaking vehicle, I am rear rider; I hear each one coming and can call a "tail" warning based on looking ahead and analysing what's going on ahead of me to see if an overtaking vehicle is coming in to conflict with us.

Wide lane, I'm doing 30mph, limit is maybe 40mph. Secondary gives adequate room for cars to overtake. A truck catches me up and is waiting behind me. Windy day. There is a gap in traffic appearing in about 8 seconds that I expect the driver will use to overtake safely. Suddenly, I hear the truck engine rev'ing up and realise the driver is going for a stupid overtake instead. I can brace myself a little so the turbulence around the truck wont come as a surprise.

 

[mickle]

[QUOTE 2049892, member: 45"]I am. It changes the timings of my actions, giving me a bigger safety zone.[/quote]

I just cant see it. If I ride in accordance with the national standards/ Cycle Craft/ Bikeability there isn't a sound which can change the specifics of what I do.

You're failing to convince me so I'd like you to try a bit harder. Which sound makes you change your course and how does your behaviour - speed and/or trajectory presumably - vary as a result.
You've given the example of a chav in a Corsa, presumably you're suggesting that you hear the engine revving before you see the vehicle? What do you do? Jump into a hedge?

 

[mickle]

A few examples of how I used hearing recently:

I am behind a moving car which is indicating right to move out due to parked car in our lane. There is a gap on my right. I look over my shoulder and indicate. I am now looking forward and know what the car infront is doing (slowing?). I hear the rev'ing of an engine in otherwise free-moving traffic, behind me. I have deduced that the chap in the outside lane behind me is a cockwomble and isn't about to let me out so can go straight to plan B (e.g stop and wait for next space). A quick glance can confirm but I heard it coming two seconds ago anyway.

Nope. Either stay in the shadow of the slowing vehicle. Or Stop. Very straightforward. The sound of the car hasn't told you anything you couldn't have worked out with your eyes.

I can hear an emergency siren in the distance. I turn round and see an ambulance around 400 metres away from me as I wait at lights near a hospital. Ambulance has moved in to oncoming lane of a 30mph single carriageway, behind me on my right. Hospital is at same junction, on my left. Would be extremely difficult for drivers to see in mirrors. I pull a few metres ahead of ASL and signal to three lanes of traffic to wait up til the ambulance is through and and turned left (across our path), the lights turn green whilst the ambulance is still 300m away. We'd have gone on green light if I had spotted the ambulance a few seconds later, thus ambulance would have had to left hook three lanes of moving traffic effectively.

I can hear an emergency vehicle through my headphones - it's why they're loud.

Group ride, we have constant overtaking vehicle, I am rear rider; I hear each one coming and can call a "tail" warning based on looking ahead and analysing what's going on ahead of me to see if an overtaking vehicle is coming in to conflict with us.

Huh? If a car is - as you suggest - about to 'come into conflict' what exactly do you all do?

Wide lane, I'm doing 30mph, limit is maybe 40mph. Secondary gives adequate room for cars to overtake. A truck catches me up and is waiting behind me. Windy day. There is a gap in traffic appearing in about 8 seconds that I expect the driver will use to overtake safely. Suddenly, I hear the truck engine rev'ing up and realise the driver is going for a stupid overtake instead. I can brace myself a little so the turbulence around the truck wont come as a surprise.

Primary Chris. Final answer.

 

[mickle]

Gawd, it'll be absolute frickin mayhem if electric vehicles ever take to the road in significant numbers....

 

[Rob3rt]

Huh? If a car is - as you suggest - about to 'come into conflict' what exactly do you all do?

Move over predictably, smoothly and without flinching. If it is going to be a tight squeeze someone will command the group to ease up or go easy so as to slow down the pace without people slamming brakes on and piling up. If the road is particularly busy and a tight squeeze then someone will ask the group to get into a single line.

Some things you cannot do much about.

 

[martint235]

Primary Chris. Final answer.

So primary all the way down the road?

As someone mentioned up-thread, there is enough to do looking out for potholes, hearing a vehicle approach from behind can give you the opportunity to alter your road position, either to brace for turbulence from a truck or to take primary. As an example, I'm heading towards Shooters Hill, I glance back and see a car a good 100 yards back. My attention is then drawn to a notorious junction where people often just pull out in front of bikes. As I pass the junction, I hear that the car behind me is now close, I'm approaching a pinch point and so take primary to put off a close pass. If there's no car there's no point changing my line and my hearing has let me know he's caught up

 

[marzjennings]

So primary all the way down the road?
As someone mentioned up-thread, there is enough to do looking out for potholes, hearing a vehicle approach from behind can give you the opportunity to alter your road position, either to brace for turbulence from a truck or to take primary.

Why do you need to alter your road position just because you hear a car approach from behind? You should already be in an appropriate position on the road regardless of what traffic may or may not be behind you.

Also you would take primary without looking to see what's behind you first? What if there was another cyclist overtaking you, in front of the car you hear approaching, you may move into them.

If some one is depending on their hearing to give warning of dangers on the road then they are not 'looking' around enough. (Sirens and group ride communication aside)

 

[martint235]

Why do you need to alter your road position just because you hear a car approach from behind? You should already be in an appropriate position on the road regardless of what traffic may or may not be behind you.

Also you would take primary without looking to see what's behind you first? What if there was another cyclist overtaking you, in front of the car you hear approaching, you may move into them.

If some one is depending on their hearing to give warning of dangers on the road then they are not 'looking' around enough. (Sirens and group ride communication aside)

Where would the cyclist come from? Sorry but there isn't time to see everything you need to and to deliberately take one of your other senses out of a situation in which it may be useful is just crazy.

And why take primary if I don't need it, that just means I have to move back out of people's way afterwards

 

[Boris Bajic]

What a load of sh!t I cannot think of a single situation where being able to hear what's going on outsde of my field of vision would have any influence on my behaviour on the road. Anyone who says they can tell the trajectory of a vehicle from the sound of it approaching from the rear by is a liar.

I think this may be more strongly worded than is helpful. I wear headphones on rural climbs (left ear only) and in the past I've worn them in both ears.

I accept that knowledge of movement outside one's field of vision might not influence one's actions, but it can be very helpful.

One reason I took to leaving the right earphone out was that I was occasionally surprised to find fast-moving trucks alongside me. You might argue that I therefore do not look behind frequently enough. Among both cycling and motorcycling friends (past tense) I am/was ridiculed for looking behind too often - even on a race track.

Finding an artic' alongside me may not influence my actions directly, but there is an element of mild surprise there which can affect my responses. This may affect my behaviour.

I am strongly in the MP3-on-a-bicycle camp, but I do find that however frequently one looks to the rear, it is helpful to have some auditory notion of vehicles approaching from what for much of one's time in the saddle is a blindspot.

 

[mickle]

Where would the cyclist come from? Sorry but there isn't time to see everything you need to and to deliberately take one of your other senses out of a situation in which it may be useful is just crazy.

And why take primary if I don't need it, that just means I have to move back out of people's way afterwards

'Out of people's way'?? Really?

 

[martint235]

'Out of people's way'?? Really?

I don't really like to be a nuisance cyclist and I don't really need 6' of empty road to my left most of the time so yes I would have to move back over from primary and out of people's way.

 

[marzjennings]

Where would the cyclist come from? Sorry but there isn't time to see everything you need to and to deliberately take one of your other senses out of a situation in which it may be useful is just crazy.

Make time to see everything. If you not looking you're not riding safely.

I'm pretty sure a car driver who hit a cyclist and claims they never heard them is in a lot of trouble. Same for a cyclist.

 

[martint235]

Make time to see everything. If you not looking you're not riding safely.

I'm pretty sure a car driver who hit a cyclist and claims they never heard them is in a lot of trouble. Same for a cyclist.

Didn't say I wasn't looking. If you have to see everything to cycle safely then it's impossible to cycle safely in London. There is far too much going on for you to see everything hence you use your other senses

Being aware isn't the same as seeing

 

[Hawk]

Nope. Either stay in the shadow of the slowing vehicle. Or Stop. Very straightforward. The sound of the car hasn't told you anything you couldn't have worked out with your eyes.

Disagree, I would have needed an extremely substantial look backwards to determine the car was accelerating to block off the space to my right i.e not let me out. To work out it was accelerating I would need to (ok subconsciously BUT the following has to happen, otherwise it's mathematically impossible for me to work out it's accelerating):

Determine its position once
Determine its position a second time and determine what distance it has covered in what time from position 1; get a feel for its speed
Determine its position a third time and determine what distance it has covered in what time from position 2; get a feel for its speed
Compare the relative speeds between 1-2 and 2-3

All this time I NEED to be looking backwards and can't be paying attention to what's in front of me.

Much less safe option than looking forwards and listening then paying a quick glance to confirm the gap's still there.

I can hear an emergency vehicle through my headphones - it's why they're loud.

I barely heard this one over the sound of HGVs and traffic when it was ~400m away. I'm sure you'd have heard it before it "left hooked" as I described but here an earlier initial audible warning allowed me to take a better course of action.

Huh? If a car is - as you suggest - about to 'come into conflict' what exactly do you all do?

A few examples:

• Car overtakes in to oncoming traffic
  • Slow in a controlled manner and allow driver to complete overtake rather than have a head-on
  • Move as far as possible to the left to minimise the chances of a head-on wiping us all out
  • A warning prompt riders in to an immediate heightened state of alert and notifies them they're in a safety-critical situation.
• Close overtake
  • Riders alerted to situation (always helps)
  • Riders have time to plan and predict what's going to happen
  • Maybe they need to ride through a pothole, that they could otherwise have avoided, to prevent having to swerve laterally in to a dangerously overtaking vehicle. Stuff like that

Primary Chris. Final answer.

OK, then the same thing happens when I'm in primary (i.e I get squezed even though I am middle of the lane). Same difference, I still know about turbulence about to hit me