raleighnut
Legendary Member
- Location
- One of the 'Elite'
seriously low punishment IMHO, he shoud at least be facing an extended 're-test' after the ban ends. 
Cyclist deliberately knocked off - driver banned for 6 months
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The sentencing guidelines don't allow for that,seriously low punishment IMHO, he shoud at least be facing an extended 're-test' after the ban ends.
Andy_R
Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
- Location
- County Durham
Where is that specified?
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997
Whilst any motor vehicle (in this regulation called “the approaching vehicle”) or any part of it is within the limits of a controlled area and is proceeding towards the crossing, the driver of the vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it-
(a)to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or
(b)to pass ahead of the foremost part of a vehicle which is stationary for the purpose of complying with regulation 23, 25 or 26.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
I've not seen any court report or report of the investigation, but the video does not provide any proof the knocking off was deliberate - only that it happened.
There is now an offence of causing serious injury by dangerous driving, which largely gets around the problem of proving intent - what was in a person's mind.
Two problems with that in this case, the cyclist was not seriously injured, and the driving doesn't meet the legal definition of dangerous driving.
The only evidence from the video is of 'a momentary lapse of attention', which is careless driving.
I agree the driver's punishment looks light, but the only way to alter that in future cases would be to reform the law.
We are then in the sticky territory of presumed criminal liability - you hit a vulnerable road user with your car therefore you are automatically guilty of an imprisonable offence.
Which, as any defence lawyer will tell you, is all fine and dandy until you are on the wrong end of it.
A simpler but less effective solution would be to up the ante on careless driving.
Less effective because you would still be relying on magistrates to use the extra sentencing powers.
They are notoriously timid when it comes to sentencing, so I can't see any bench locking up the likes of this van driver even if they had the power to do so.
There is now an offence of causing serious injury by dangerous driving, which largely gets around the problem of proving intent - what was in a person's mind.
Two problems with that in this case, the cyclist was not seriously injured, and the driving doesn't meet the legal definition of dangerous driving.
The only evidence from the video is of 'a momentary lapse of attention', which is careless driving.
I agree the driver's punishment looks light, but the only way to alter that in future cases would be to reform the law.
We are then in the sticky territory of presumed criminal liability - you hit a vulnerable road user with your car therefore you are automatically guilty of an imprisonable offence.
Which, as any defence lawyer will tell you, is all fine and dandy until you are on the wrong end of it.
A simpler but less effective solution would be to up the ante on careless driving.
Less effective because you would still be relying on magistrates to use the extra sentencing powers.
They are notoriously timid when it comes to sentencing, so I can't see any bench locking up the likes of this van driver even if they had the power to do so.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Personally, I think do away with tiered levels of road crime. Going from law abiding, through careless and into dangerous serves no one except lawyers.
The law on the subject should be simplfied. You're either conforming with the law and driving in a careful, competent manner...or you are not. Once you've tripped beyond that threshold the penalties should be severe and licence irretrievably removed.
No one gets the benefit of the doubt for a momentary lapse of shoplifting, or a momentary lapse when twatting someone. If I had a momentary lapse with my shotgun id probably be imprisoned and definitely never allowed a shotgun ticket again. The fact that this chaps weapon has 4 wheels and an engine instead of a trigger and cartridges makes the consequences of its misuse no less deadly (as terrorists have discovered, and are now using vehicles as weapons of mass killing) and society should be equally firm with those that abuse the privilege.
In any other field of law and endeavour a momentary lapse would be regarded as negligence, and so it should be with road crime. Despite mankinds best efforts to the contrary, the motor car has killed more people than the gun, yet its the latter that gets the attention.
The law on the subject should be simplfied. You're either conforming with the law and driving in a careful, competent manner...or you are not. Once you've tripped beyond that threshold the penalties should be severe and licence irretrievably removed.
No one gets the benefit of the doubt for a momentary lapse of shoplifting, or a momentary lapse when twatting someone. If I had a momentary lapse with my shotgun id probably be imprisoned and definitely never allowed a shotgun ticket again. The fact that this chaps weapon has 4 wheels and an engine instead of a trigger and cartridges makes the consequences of its misuse no less deadly (as terrorists have discovered, and are now using vehicles as weapons of mass killing) and society should be equally firm with those that abuse the privilege.
In any other field of law and endeavour a momentary lapse would be regarded as negligence, and so it should be with road crime. Despite mankinds best efforts to the contrary, the motor car has killed more people than the gun, yet its the latter that gets the attention.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
Nicely put and self evidently true.
It's a tough one because if you removed momentary lapse from the equation there would be lots of routinely safe drivers feeling a crushing sense of injustice for being criminalised for what they genuinely felt was a momentary lapse.
This driver probably was at it in some way or other, so no sympathy for him.
But I remain uncomfortable with the idea that every driver in similar circumstances would be automatically guilty of a serious criminal offence.
newfhouse
Resolutely on topic
Isn’t poor driving a lifestyle choice?
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
It might be for some, although even the worst dangerous driving only lasts for a few miles and it's nearly always the case the driver will have done many thousands of miles safely.
The difficulty with catch-all legislation is just that, it catches everybody.
A few years ago my brother pulled out in front of another driver, causing a collision.
For that split second, he was a very poor driver, but did thousands of miles annually safely for years before and for years after.
He stopped, was fully insured, coughed the job immediately, and I was in my car following and offered the other a driver a lift somewhere if he needed it.
Oh, and my mother helped sweep up some of the wreckage with a broom provided by a nearby householder.
Brother wouldn't have argued with a careless conviction, but perhaps partly because of our response, the other driver didn't see the need to involve the cops.
I think most people would agree that was a sensible resolution to what is a relatively common situation.
Automatically criminalising drivers in similar circumstances seems excessive to me.
Punkawallah
Über Member
Anybody else find being overtaken on roundabouts an issue? Two of us (in tandem - not ‘on’) negotiating a roundabout in the left hand lane overtaken by a car by using the right hand lane, then cutting off the lead rider to get on to the exit first. Joy.
raleighnut
Legendary Member
- Location
- One of the 'Elite'
So you were in the 'wrong' lane, unless you were turning left you should be in the righthand lane even on a bike.
figbat
Slippery scientist
- Location
- South Oxfordshire, UK
Eh? If you are using any exit up to and including 12 o’clock the primary lane is the left one, unless otherwise marked or signed.
...you may want to rethink that - what about straight on?
Punkawallah
Über Member
We were, indeed, turning left.
