Cycle slower to loose weight.

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Feastie

Über Member
Location
Leeds
Well done on your weight loss so far! Impressive stuff. I don't really have much definitive stuff to say as I'm not a nutrition expert, but to my understanding you have to be very severely under nourished over quite a long period of time before your body will start metabolising your muscle - people with chronic diseases, cancer, severe malabsorption syndromes and eating disorders, essentially. Your body goes through a lot of other sources of fuel before reaching the point where you start thinking about breaking down muscle in order to generate glucose! So maybe you can read up on it as I'm not 100% but really I don't think you have to worry about your body being forced to break down your own muscle just in order to get by - unless you're about to suddenly stop eating altogether!! I'm not quite sure where the shift occurs but as I said, I'm pretty definite it's at a much more extreme end than just 1,500+your cycling calories/day.

If you're relatively active and moving throughout the day (excluding your cycling sessions) then daily requirements for a man are supposedly 2,500 calories (2,000 for women). If you're sedentary then it'll be less, but if I were you I think I'd address the contents of your diet (healthier foods!), try to work out how many calories you're taking in per day at the moment, and then see if you can cut maybe 500 off and just see how it goes, e.g. aiming for 2,000. To be honest you could probably do this no problem just by changing the types of food you're eating and yet still remain full, which would also have the knock-on of helping with your health in general. It's much more likely to be successful than making a dramatic calorie intake shift if you do things a bit more gradually and in steps, or so I've always thought. I also don't know how much taking into account cycling calories will help - the daily guidelines requirements take into account 30 mins of physical exercise, after all. Aiming for 2,000 or 2,500 (guideline amounts) and then just not bothering to count in cycling calories and treating those as your calorie deficit might also work out quite nicely. If you're going to cycle daily anyway, what's the point of doing it that way round?
 

Biker Joe

Über Member
Congratulations on your weight loss sddg7tfl.
I admire your dedication
I would, however, question your reasoning on calorie intake. I don't have a lot of experience in this area but to me your reasoning seems flawed in this respect. May I suggest you have a rethink and do more research into dietary requirements for sporting activities. I mean you shouldn't be bonking at all on a 60 mile ride, for instance.
Anyway, well done on your progress so far and I wish you well for the future.
 
OP
OP
sddg7tfl

sddg7tfl

Active Member
Sorry about the delay in getting back to this thread.
Several people mentioned the very low 1500 calories per day figure i quoted.

Yes ditch your flawed science and do it properly. 1500 cals per day for a grown man is VERY LOW. Barely more than the UK average intake for a woman.

Since i started dieting 5 days ago i have been "aiming" for this figure, but on every single day have overun towards a more sensible level
of 1900-2100 calories. Obviously if my garmin edge 800 estimates i've used 400 calories on a ride, i will make sure i eat this extra 400
calories. Yesterday i had a ride expenditure of 600 calories, so that was added into the baseline of 1500 calories to make 2100 calories.
I actually ate 2400 calories. (So it wasn't a 1500 day ... more like 1800).

With that said. I'd love more info. INC - height/age/current diet/current activity level/diagnosed limitations and where the OP got this 1500cal per day slow ride idea from.

Height: 5'6"
43 years old
Food supplied by girlfriend who is a health freak plus i'm avoiding sugary drinks/fast food.
Maintenance guy in a large factory = on my feet all day.
Diagnosed limitations = Asthma (if that's what you meant).
1500 per day idea = all people on diets actually eat more than they think. Do you measure out 45 grams of Alpen to obtain the correct
calorie figure quoted on the box, or just guess?
So i'm aiming for 1500 calories, but i'm sure i'm hitting 2000 calories.

to my understanding you have to be very severely under nourished over quite a long period of time before your body will start metabolising your muscle

Proof of the pudding will be weekday *slow* rides ... but then absolutely hammering the bike at the weekend.
I mean surely if i'm starting to become malnourished my benchmark average speed over a 30 mile course will drop and then
i'd know more nutrients are required.
I covered a non-stop 30.0 miler today on a mountain bike in under 2 hours. If i can do the same next weekend i'll assume
everything is fine.

you shouldn't be bonking at all on a 60 mile ride, for instance.

I know ... lets just say a Mcdonalds breakfast caused it!!
I have since changed to eating slow carb release meals before the longer rides.

You'll probably not burn less per ride. If anything by riding slowly enough that fat is easily metabolised you'd be burning more. Carbs 4cals per g | fat 9cals per g.You evidently need to do a bit more research before you begin this "thing"

That's what i want ... to burn a lower ratio of glycogen and higher ratio of fat per ride.

Todays fast ride has had less achiness and afterburn than yesterdays slow ride ... same distance, although i arrived home today as hungry as a horse. Yesterday a cup of tea sufficed.
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
Since i started dieting 5 days ago i have been "aiming" for this figure, but on every single day have overun towards a more sensible level
of 1900-2100 calories. Obviously if my garmin edge 800 estimates i've used 400 calories on a ride, i will make sure i eat this extra 400
calories. Yesterday i had a ride expenditure of 600 calories, so that was added into the baseline of 1500 calories to make 2100 calories.
I actually ate 2400 calories. (So it wasn't a 1500 day ... more like 1800).
Your initial post wasn't clear but working a reasonably active job as well as cycling. You're probably looking to the upper end of 2400-2500cals a day anyway.


Height: 5'6"
43 years old
Food supplied by girlfriend who is a health freak plus i'm avoiding sugary drinks/fast food.
Maintenance guy in a large factory = on my feet all day.
Diagnosed limitations = Asthma (if that's what you meant).
1500 per day idea = all people on diets actually eat more than they think. Do you measure out 45 grams of Alpen to obtain the correct
calorie figure quoted on the box, or just guess?
So i'm aiming for 1500 calories, but i'm sure i'm hitting 2000 calories.
Yep asthma and the likes is what I meant :smile:

I do measure the majority of my food yes. I can generally gauge what's in the meals I don't measure(or have all of the time) by eye these days. It's worth doing for a while,and worth being honest about by using apps like myfitnesspal. I was shocked at how little I ate in times long gone by.

I have since changed to eating slow carb release meals before the longer rides.
A sensible choice.

That's what i want ... to burn a lower ratio of glycogen and higher ratio of fat per ride.
Ok. As far as I'm aware though, the ratio of fat stays the same, the balance of glycogen/carb use is changeable.

Todays fast ride has had less achiness and afterburn than yesterdays slow ride ... same distance, although i arrived home today as hungry as a horse. Yesterday a cup of tea sufficed.
That's likely a sign that you are requiring a decent carb source.
 

jdtate101

Ex-Fatman
There's a lot of recent research (I'll try and track it down and post it for reference) that says doing long slow base miles doesn't work better than using shorter targeted HIT training. If you burn high amounts of energy in intense exercise you will work your cardio system better and deplete your energy reserves. Those energy reserves are then rebuilt either by taking in fuel or by converting fat to energy. As long as you eat sensibly then you should be in a win/win situation. Don't do what most people do and reach for the fridge as soon as you get back from a ride, but think about what you are doing and stick to a meal plan with a realistic calorie count. Too little and you will just starve your body and damage yourself (succumb to overtraining easily).

I was in the same situation as the OP and started cycling at 18.5st. I'm now 12.5st and I do not do long base mile riding, but usually do a mixture of medium and high intensity. I haven't changed my diet one bit except for two crucial points:

1) More fruit and veg to get better nutrition to fuel me during rides/recovery.
2) Portion control (slightly smaller portions to control my intake)

In this way I'm not cutting out any food I love and don't feel like I'm punishing myself by a harsh diet. The reason why most people fail at traditional diets is because they end up hating the fact that they have had to give up all the nice things they love. If you can avoid that trap then you will be more likely to end up making the change in lifestyle stick longterm.
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
There's a lot of recent research (I'll try and track it down and post it for reference) that says doing long slow base miles doesn't work better than using shorter targeted HIT training. If you burn high amounts of energy in intense exercise you will work your cardio system better and deplete your energy reserves. Those energy reserves are then rebuilt either by taking in fuel or by converting fat to energy. As long as you eat sensibly then you should be in a win/win situation. Don't do what most people do and reach for the fridge as soon as you get back from a ride, but think about what you are doing and stick to a meal plan with a realistic calorie count. Too little and you will just starve your body and damage yourself (succumb to overtraining easily).
Nobody said it works better though? The training stresses are different, the training adaptations are different and ultimately HIIT due to intensity will raise your BMR for hours for roughly the same overall calorie burn for less time input.
 
OP
OP
sddg7tfl

sddg7tfl

Active Member
Don't do what most people do and reach for the fridge as soon as you get back from a ride

I used to do exactly that after a fast 30 miler using 1200 calories, and probably ended
up shoving 600 calories straight back in such as:
  • Peanut butter sandwiches
  • Pork pie
  • Crisps
  • Yoghurt
  • Fizzy drink
Today's 30 miler was proceeded by sunday roast, although i cut down on the bad stuff and had loads more vegetables.
No hunger at the end of the ride! Even though i had my highest ever average heart rate. (83% of my mhr) on this particular route.
 

Garz

Squat Member
Location
Down
Yes ditch your flawed science and do it properly.
...
I can't say what I really want to,because I will ultimately get banned for it. You evidently need to do a bit more research before you begin this "thing"

I think the best advice TMHNET is to work on your social skills and focus on the constructive advice. Whilst I do not have a problem with your posts in general you do come across as aggressive and give out the wrong signals to others. This is another thread I have seen you post in where you either upset someone or provoke them. If you really want to contribute to the forum then tone down the negativity and add some jovial twist re-reading the retort before posting. :giggle:
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
I think the best advice TMHNET is to work on your social skills and focus on the constructive advice. Whilst I do not have a problem with your posts in general you do come across as aggressive and give out the wrong signals to others. This is another thread I have seen you post in where you either upset someone or provoke them. If you really want to contribute to the forum then tone down the negativity and add some jovial twist re-reading the retort before posting. :giggle:
If you don't like my posts, don't read them or put me on ignore. I didn't see anyone crying in this thread due to upset caused by me(if I did upset anyone, let me know and I'll happily apologise). But unlike you, who just turned up for a whine,I have actually contributed constructively.

If you or anyone else really wants to discuss me,nitpick posts and rabbit on about things I didn't directly say(but implied) send me a pm and stop taking one of the few decent threads recently off-topic for your own jollies.
 

Ningishzidda

Senior Member
As an ex resident of Quebec, Canada, I can catagorically state that riding a bike slower shifts more fat.
Especially when the blowing cold wind can be felt for the entire trip, and my body is nowhere near warmed up for well over 20 miles.
 

Ningishzidda

Senior Member
1500 calories.
That is
4 eggs. two slices of wholemeal toast.
8 oz steak, a whole iceburg lettuce, a whole cucumber. 2 large Tomatoes.
Three items of fruit.
Milk in coffee.
 

Rohloff_Brompton_Rider

Formerly just_fixed
I'm sure it I've read that it's really important to eat within twenty minutes of returning from a ride, to aid muscle recovery. I also thought that what you ate on a ride and within twenty minutes of a hard ride was calorie negative, I.e, your body used it straight away.
 

Ningishzidda

Senior Member
OP.
Knowing how much to eat before and during a bike ride is up to personal experience. A start point can be roughly calculated as BMR + 25 kCals per mile.

Aim NEVER to bonk.

For a 100 miler, in addition to your BMR, 2500 cals spread over breakfast, lunch and snacks should do it.

If fat is not lost using this, try 20 kCals per mile.
 
OP
OP
sddg7tfl

sddg7tfl

Active Member
As an ex resident of Quebec, Canada, I can catagorically state that riding a bike slower shifts more fat.
Especially when the blowing cold wind can be felt for the entire trip, and my body is nowhere near warmed up for well over 20 miles.

I've had that. Normally i warm up (get though the achey leg phase) in 6 miles at 15mph in 10c conditions.
Tried a ride a few weeks ago at -5c and didn't "get going" until 15miles in.
 
OP
OP
sddg7tfl

sddg7tfl

Active Member
OP.
Knowing how much to eat before and during a bike ride is up to personal experience. A start point can be roughly calculated as BMR + 25 kCals per mile.

Aim NEVER to bonk.

For a 100 miler, in addition to your BMR, 2500 cals spread over breakfast, lunch and snacks should do it.

If fat is not lost using this, try 20 kCals per mile.

Useful advice!

When i cycle at 10mph on a mountain bike (barely raising my heartrate over 53% of my MHR) my
edge 800 calculates 600 cals used over 30 miles (20 a mile).

At 15mph (80% MHR on MTB) it rises to 1200 cals over 30 miles (40 a mile).


On a recent 102 miler on a road bike the computer calculated 2900 calories, putting me around
30 cals a mile ... obviously at a higher speed due to the change of bike.
My "effort" on the ride was somewhere between the first two examples above.
 
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