Cycle Security - Please comment and repost amongst your friends

[Chris Pipkin]

Are you looking to develop this on a national basis or just in county?

There are numerous schemes available in different force areas - I am hopeful to push this one out across all of Sussex (after what I hope is going to be a successful trial). With the correct publicity, once we promote our success stories and other forces will undoubtedly follow as they won't want to miss out on reducing crime in this area. In fact I spoke with a colleague in West Midlands Police today who is very interested in our scheme and is going to look to develop his current project.

Regards

Chris

 

[PpPete]

As the owner of one expensive (and very customised) bike, along with several less valuable ones, I'd definitely go for an option with multiple stickers.
I'd want 1 for the frame, 1 each for the handbuilt wheels, 1 for the Brooks sadddle, maybe 1out of sight under the handlebars too ?
Hopefully 1 out of 5 might come to someone's attention ?
That's if the scheme gets taken up by Hampshire of course.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

We can't circulate the frame numbers of stolen bikes to other forces - there are simply too many, which is why we need to have a system whereby owners can flag the bike as stolen, that we can check it in the event of us finding a marked bike. We use the Police National Computer for cars and motorbikes - this is effectively the same for bikes. PNC is invaluable; this has the potential to be the same.

So my mountain bike, registered with Sussex Police as it lives in Horsham, gets nicked from my car at Leith Hill in Surrey, but Sussex Police can't tell Surrey about its details and/or vice versa? That's disappointing. Why? There are 30 million cars (NB just cars) registered in the UK and every single one of them is on a database. If I steal a car in Newcastle-upon-Tyne the police in Newcastle Emlyn get to know about it. There are only about 10 million bikes in the UK. The scale of the problem is much smaller. The implication is bikes are just toys and if one gets stolen the owner has them means to replace it out of their pocket money.

 

[Chris Pipkin]

So my mountain bike, registered with Sussex Police as it lives in Horsham, gets nicked from my car at Leith Hill in Surrey, but Sussex Police can't tell Surrey about its details and/or vice versa? That's disappointing. Why?

Sorry, that was slightly unclear on my part. As a matter of course we do not exchange details of bike thefts as they occur - if we did we would do nothing but swap details of stolen bikes and other property. If Surrey Police call us and ask us to check our systems for a particular item - of course we would and we would then undertake the necessary enquiries to get it back to you. If your bike was marked with one of these tags, Surrey would be able to check the bike, get your details and make contact with you direct (and probably much quicker) to get your bike back to you.

Regards
Chris

 

[MattL]

Chris,

I've read what you've been saying and it's good that there's an effort on the part of the law to try to get bikes to their rightful owners. The thing that occurs to me is about accessibility of the data of the registered bikes and their status. What I'd like to put forward is to put that data onto an XML based API. This might seem like gobbledegook but what it means is that anyone would be able to connect and lookup that data. (They could perhaps have to register to get it so it's not necessarily a free-for-all.) This means that all cycle forums and people getting websites would be able to have their own widgets on a website to check the status of a bike. It wouldn't mean that everyone's personal data is available, but to be able to get a person's name, telephone number, county, bike make, bike model, bike colour, bike code number and bike status would be enough to satisfy the need. You could even consider photographs.

This would be a benefit because it would mean the law would still be providing the service but not have the "hassle" (forgive me) of chasing up all the enquiries. It would also mean that the lookup systems are widespread, removing the obsticle of people doing the lookup. Sites like eBay and other vendors would be able to do checks. Once the system is so freely available, it cuts the crime because so many people can verify whether a bike is stolen, thieves are less inclined to steal them.

In short, make the data available to as many people as you can and those who want it to work will make it work for you.

 

[byegad]

Sorry, that was slightly unclear on my part. As a matter of course we do not exchange details of bike thefts as they occur - if we did we would do nothing but swap details of stolen bikes and other property. If Surrey Police call us and ask us to check our systems for a particular item - of course we would and we would then undertake the necessary enquiries to get it back to you. If your bike was marked with one of these tags, Surrey would be able to check the bike, get your details and make contact with you direct (and probably much quicker) to get your bike back to you.

Regards
Chris

All you need do is put it on a data base accessible by all police forces*. Then when my bike turns up in another county under suspicious circumstances the frame number can be checked against it. This is easy, you have Holmes for serious offences that all forces may access, another for cars, so one more for bikes will do the trick. No more work than entering the details of my stolen bike into the correct database. Surely that's what you do for your own force anyway?

As has been said above, to us bicycles, and in my case tricycles, are a means of transport/sports equipment, and in the case of some, more expensive than a second hand car. Surely a simple database is not beyond the wit of (police)man?

*Allow all to access it and we can do the checking for you, so, I look up a number, it comes up as reported stolen, I call the police.

 

[User269]

I'd like to see more emphasis on preventing bike theft, and less on being able to identify the owner of a bike once it's been stolen.

 

[MattL]

I'd like to see more emphasis on preventing bike theft, and less on being able to identify the owner of a bike once it's been stolen.

To be fair, if someone is going to steal a bike, you can't actually stop them. Basic security will stop the opportunists but some people you just can't reach.

 

[TheDoctor]

I'd be more keen if I actually had any confidence in the police.
You want to stop bike theft - then pay some attention to Brick Lane Market, amongst others.
I've just seen too many tales on here of people who see their stolen bikes on Ebay and Gumtree, and the Bill do diddley squat.

 

[Chris Pipkin]

Thanks again for your comments.

The data sharing between forces seems to be quite a big area of concern for you - they beauty of this system will mean that both the police and the public can check the database to see if the bike is stolen - we will be able to get the personal information and make contact with the victim in the event of finding a bike that has been reported. With the QR codes - anyone with a smart phone can scan a bikes sticker which will take you directly to an internet page telling you if a bike is reported stolen...which seems fool proof even to a police (man).

Running along side such an operation will be a high profile media campaign which will focus on prevention of crime. We will be making it very clear to any potential bike thieves that bikes are being marked, that they will be traceable and that we can determine very quickly if a marked bike is in the wrong hands - if it is they can expect to be arrested. I envisage eye catching signage at town centre bike parking locations, as well as train stations, leisure centres, schools uni's etc etc.

Brick Lane market has been mentioned - I can say first hand, that the Met's cycle task force deal with all of the issues raised in that post and actively look for eBay and Gumtree adverts that look suspicious.

Keep the comments coming - this is really helpful for my research.

Regards

Chris

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'd be more keen if I actually had any confidence in the police.
You want to stop bike theft - then pay some attention to Brick Lane Market, amongst others.
I've just seen too many tales on here of people who see their stolen bikes on Ebay and Gumtree, and the Bill do diddley squat.

I think that is a little harsh.

Whilst I've been frustrated with the local (sussex) police and btp attitudes to cycle theft for a number of years the latter are raising their game and the met have a group of officers who bust a gut with limited resources and have lots of successes to brag about. So it isn't all bad news.

And unless he is having us on the OP is on the job and is an example of an officer in a force trying to do something about the issue. Might not be much. Might not be the perfect solution. It's a significant step in the right direction.

 

[MossCommuter]

With the QR codes - anyone with a smart phone can scan a bikes sticker which will take you directly to an internet page telling you if a bike is reported stolen.

The challenge here is that a sticker can be removed from a stolen bicycle a lot more readily than the serial number stamped on the frame.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Running along side such an operation will be a high profile media campaign which will focus on prevention of crime. We will be making it very clear to any potential bike thieves that bikes are being marked, that they will be traceable and that we can determine very quickly if a marked bike is in the wrong hands - if it is they can expect to be arrested. I envisage eye catching signage at town centre bike parking locations, as well as train stations, leisure centres, schools uni's etc etc.

Chris, please treat the media campaign and eye catching signage angles with care. BTP tried a poster and leaflet campaign at Horsham a couple of years back, before the rail station redevelopment started, warning folk the station was a bike theft hot spot.

Guess what? We saw a short term decrease in the number of people cycling to the station! I know because it coincided with the rebirth of our local cycling forum, of which I'm secretary, and I was doing a bit of a bikes in the bike sheds survey to try to influence Southern/Network Rail to improve the facilities there.

Ideally what we need, imo, at schools, uni's, leisure centres, town centres and stations is proper secure storage in dedicated compounds, with decent access systems and good cctv which recognise the value, both asset wise and personal, of modern bikes.

 

[fimm]

My question is, how are you going to reach cyclists?
I believe Edinburgh has some kind of similar scheme. I occassionally see reference to it in reports of cycling promotion events. My problem is, I work outside the city, and so don't get to "bike breakfasts" and the like. I have no idea if I could roll up to my nearest police station and ask for my bikes to be marked. In fact, I have no idea where the nearest police station is. And (she says cynically) it is probably open 9 - 5 and I work outside Edinburgh... besides which I have more bikes than I can easily transport all at once... just throwing things at you for you to think about.

I think I prefer the multiple sticker idea.

 

[Chris Pipkin]

My question is, how are you going to reach cyclists?
I believe Edinburgh has some kind of similar scheme. I occassionally see reference to it in reports of cycling promotion events. My problem is, I work outside the city, and so don't get to "bike breakfasts" and the like. I have no idea if I could roll up to my nearest police station and ask for my bikes to be marked. In fact, I have no idea where the nearest police station is. And (she says cynically) it is probably open 9 - 5 and I work outside Edinburgh... besides which I have more bikes than I can easily transport all at once... just throwing things at you for you to think about.

I think I prefer the multiple sticker idea.

We have got a few ideas already in the pipeline. We will be using social media (Twitter and Facebook accounts) to reach as many people as possible from the on-line community as well as web pages hosted on our own website and partner agencies (councils etc). We may look to use forums like this to promote events.

We will obviously be promoting the marking events through local radio and paper as well as posters in key locations. Marking events will not just town centres and will take place at various different times and days so that people who work Monday to Friday 9 - 5 will be able to use the service. Local officers will also have the facilities to call at people's house and mark their bikes if they so wish.

Regards
Chris