'Cycle Schemes' failing?

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summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not going into that much detail on an open forum but the questions often involve total spend, underlying assumptions, ins and outs and specifics of the scheme and choices. I'm not questioning that cycling is going up in some areas but why it is going up. I've been to presentations on particular schemes and often assumptions are fiddled or very obvious omissions made. I'm perfectly happy for money to go to some of these schemes and that they do good but fed up of the very sloppy scrutiny that goes on - I don't think it's helpful for cycle campaigning at all, if you offer very gushing unfounded praise of a council or a cycling charity they'll walk all over you. I'm very much interested in details than vague grand strategies.

The council and transport executive have a variety of different ways, that said for some of them especially the transport executive I wish they'd do some of them a bit more often. They are reasonable enough but some of them can be self fulfilling loops with respect to themselves at the exclusion of other areas. For example policy could be very much focused on bicycle trips to the city centre, this then gets measured more than other things, it goes up and policy is concentrated on this rather than say bicycle trips to large vibrant local shops or particularly large destinations where we have to take the word of the travel plan coordinator say. One of the things that seems better this time round is the local transport plan is very much more joined up, we'll have to see how that does in the context of very large cuts.

On the recent topic of cycling england and schools what I mean by lack of transparency is that the end results are just presented along the lines of we had such and such a bike day and large number x turned up by being bribed with a free breakfast and bicycle checks. John Smith from charity x/council says oh the kids think it marvellous and are really enthused. When you get into the nuts and bolts of it like why such a small percentage of schools were picked or why they were chosen it all gets a lot more vague. We aren't told of total spend, how many people go to the school, %, levels of cycling outside of these events (although some schools themselves are much more interested in that than the actual charity or council) how much per hour, per child, facilities to support the boom (parking) and so on. How much of a council officer's time is spent on it, how much they earn, why the plans aren't more ambitious, underlying assumptions etc. Some of those questions don't necessarily even have bad answers it's just you have to go fairly long lengths to find out the answers - it's a lack of transparency.

Interesting answer ... to which I will have to go away and ponder on ...

Though it does make me polish my halo a little that I was obviously one of those school interested bods ... as when I was monitoring cycle usage at my child's school (for the travel plan) I did it daily for several years, and knew what percentage of the kids cycled, and how many of them were regular cyclists as opposed to once or twice a year cyclists etc, even which school years had high or low numbers of cyclists.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Interesting answer ... to which I will have to go away and ponder on ...

Though it does make me polish my halo a little that I was obviously one of those school interested bods ... as when I was monitoring cycle usage at my child's school (for the travel plan) I did it daily for several years, and knew what percentage of the kids cycled, and how many of them were regular cyclists as opposed to once or twice a year cyclists etc, even which school years had high or low numbers of cyclists.

Some of the schools are keeping rigorous checks here on numbers but they are only a small number of a small number of total primary schools. I don't think they're doing enough for secondary schools. We'll see in 5-15 years if all this pays off. If all the schemes collapsed tomorrow the parking infrastructure is very slowly going in so it could be resurrected at some point. I hope that doesn't happen. As I've said before the 'problem' is it drains a lot of the budget to the detriment of adult infrastructure and there's only so much money. It's also a bit too focused - trips to the city centre and primary schools. Resources tend to be concentrated on places that are already 'cycling neighbourhoods'. I was quite surprised that one of the schools near here which is a complete and utter basket case for outside school parking (a short distance) is part of a scheme, we'll have to see on that one. We just don't have the resources Bristol has though.
 

mark barker

New Member
Location
Swindon, Wilts
As I've said before the 'problem' is it drains a lot of the budget to the detriment of adult infrastructure and there's only so much money.
Sadly I think that many adults are beyond help. I'm 36 and from my friends at school theres only a handful that ever cycle, and I'm the only one that uses a bike as the main form of transport. Trying to re-educate them is going to be virtually impossible, so ignoring them and concentrating on the kids makes more sense.

Resources tend to be concentrated on places that are already 'cycling neighbourhoods'.
I think this makes sense. If the authorities have examples of communities that prove that cycling can work and can make a difference its far easier to sell the idea to others. 10 success stories sounds much better than 1 success and 9 failures. Once cycling becomes the norm in some areas then others may learn from that....
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Sadly I think that many adults are beyond help. I'm 36 and from my friends at school theres only a handful that ever cycle, and I'm the only one that uses a bike as the main form of transport. Trying to re-educate them is going to be virtually impossible, so ignoring them and concentrating on the kids makes more sense.

I agree it's hard to get adults in generally, but the bias is far too far over one way. The sort of funds I'm talking about are not large and very targetted. I suspect what happens in the cycling cities is they have the sort of budgets here, plus the sort of things I go on about plus enough spare cash over for some of the larger more controversial schemes.

On schools I I think that's different. Golden opportunity to get more adults cycling in. It'll be a mix of carrot and stick. Really work place parking needs to be taxed and sorted out with a joined up travel plan, that sort of thing has only really started to happen pretty recently in many places. There are probably other sociological reasons why teachers won't/will cycle though.

I think this makes sense. If the authorities have examples of communities that prove that cycling can work and can make a difference its far easier to sell the idea to others. 10 success stories sounds much better than 1 success and 9 failures. Once cycling becomes the norm in some areas then others may learn from that....

But do they work? The areas are already a 'success' in some ways. It goes back to the measurement problem though and classification of success. We talk of cycling cities in this country but what is actually the case is there are cycling neighbourhoods. What tends to happen on schemes is that people in these neighbourhoods who 'take up' cycling are just wives/neighbours/children of people who are already cyclists and they do it in a very part time way which is good in some ways. What you want in my view is to try and kick start cycling in the periphery areas on the edge of cycling corridors and neighbourhoods to get the best of both worlds.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
But by getting the children cycling to school even short distances, some of the parents start cycling with them ... I now see quite a few parents arriving by bike and then going on to work, you don't feel the odd one in the playground anymore. I'm not keeping the stats now but I reckon that over 5% cycle sometimes (that's 5% of the school population ... don't know how many families that is). That has certainly increased from a couple of years ago when I would rarely see anyone other than me and about 2 others with a bike.
 

Banjo

Fuelled with Jelly Babies
Location
South Wales
Rather than give tax incentives to help people buy bikes that may or may not be used for commuting I would like to see a tax rebate for employees who regullarilly cycle to work. Not sure how it could be policed but if both the employer and the employee had to sign a declaration it would at least discourage some fiddling.
 
OP
OP
M

magnatom

Guest
Rather than give tax incentives to help people buy bikes that may or may not be used for commuting I would like to see a tax rebate for employees who regullarilly cycle to work. Not sure how it could be policed but if both the employer and the employee had to sign a declaration it would at least discourage some fiddling.


I totally agree, and after reading your post last night I got thinking. How could you do that......

Cycle to Work Scheme Version 2

For a upfront payment of £50 the cyclist will receive a waterproof GPS unit. This unit should be attached to the bike as indicated in the instructions. When starting a journey the cyclist should switch the unit on and hit the start button. The unit will then track your position, speed during the journey. Also during the journey and using the in built low resolution camera, the unit will take low resolution pictures at random intervals.

At work the cyclist should hit the stop button and connect the device to their computer to upload the GPS track and pictures to the CWS2 web site. Automated software will then examine the tracks to confirm that the cyclist did indeed cycle to work. In the case of doubt the pictures will be viewed by one of our operators to confirm that you were cycling.

Tax benefits will accrue for every confirmed journey to work undertaken by bike. It is expected that within 2 months most cyclists will have gained enough benefit to cover the initial outlay cost......
 

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
You ................... it's a lack of transparency.
first rate post, Marin, and one that should be emblazoned on Hammond's desk.

The clue is this - in some places cycling is increasing, and in other places it's flat or declining. Most of us know where it's increasing. Before we cast around finding ideas that look good on paper and make us feel good about ourselves it would be smart to look at what works and what doesn't. And that, my dears, is something that Sustrans in particular and cycling organisations in general avoid doing. (You want chapter and verse, you can have chapter and verse, but I'm bored with typing the same stuff time and time again).

So - instead of repeating mistakes, learn from successes - and, here's the big point, particularly those successes that are accidental.

Oh - and we should never be so vain as to think that cycling is a big deal in and of itself - it's the contribution it makes that's important.
 

sheddy

Legendary Member
Location
Suffolk
Has anyone been involved in the CTC workplace challenge ? http://www.ctc.org.u...aspx?tabid=5313

Does the CTC setup and run the webpage for each town and how do they nominate that town ?
 
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