Cycle facilities at train stations

[dellzeqq]

there was a boarding ramp in the cubbyhole when went on one, and it looked a bit iffy. I stood with the bike to Penzance.

 

[domd1979]

As for the "carriage costs" why are buses and other transport systems restricted in number by safety?

Because there's more chance of a road vehicle being involved in an accident, or needing to swerve/brake sharply. Rail vehicles are much more controlled.

Imagine if we allowed busses to "pack 'em in and design space that was inadequate?

Bus fare would be much cheaper if 52 seated and 12 standing was changed to 100 or more people - why not allow them the same compromises that rail has been allowed?

Articulated buses are operated precisely because they can shift more people on one vehicle than a double decker (as well as loading more quickly) - an artic bus will carry in the region of 120 people versus 90ish for a double deck.

 

[domd1979]

There is of course the obligatory crumple zone at the ends of high speed trains like Voyagers and Adelantes, which can provide an opportunity for cycle storage, though I think this is to be used for the catering trolley in the modified Voyagers... Dom1979?

Yep, as I understand that's what will be happening. The first refurbished Voyager is due in service imminently.

 

[jonesy]

Yep, as I understand that's what will be happening. The first refurbished Voyager is due in service imminently.

So what is happening to the space where the shop used to be?

 

[domd1979]

The voyagers and their like are another problem with poor planning......

Voyagers are just nasty trains full stop, but sadly we're now lumbered with them for the next gawd knows how many years.

Lots of smaller trains take up far more capacity on the network than single larger units.

Train length is constrained by platform length though. Network capacity is affected by a lot of things including the mix of trains using the route, and signalling capability.

It would be possible to buy carriages cheaper than these powered units, allow adequate space and improve network capacity!

Adding un-powered trailer cars into existing units is generally not an option because it reduces acceleration capability that timetables have now been written around.

The cost would also be minimal - In 2004 SouthWest Trains alone had 300 units "nn storage" because they were unable to run as the power supply was incapable of meeting the demands of the units. No-one though to check!!!

The SRA footed out another 7.2 million in storage costs on top of the wasted purchase price!

The purchase price wasn't wasted since the trains are in service.

There is aso the reliability issue - in some cases this new rolling stock breaks down every 2,400 miles (First Great Western) on average compared with 24,000 miles (Connex slam doors) for the old rolling stock!

Its all very well quoting miles per casualty, but a lot of modern stock is now exceeding 24,000 mpc. It isn't just a function of the rolling stock either - other operators use the same stock as FGW without any major issues.

As for the costs of spaces - they are actually low!

Incuding running costs, leasing costs, interest and maintenace the actual "cost" of each seat to the company is (aacording to Transport Watch UK) £600!

So anything above that is a profit!

Sounds very low to me - I'd be surprised if that even covered just the leasing cost. On top of whatever the rolling stock costs are there's running stations as well. Also factor in that if you give over a third of a carriage (say) to bicycle carriage, that's a third of a carriage not generating passenger revenue, which any operator would also take into account.

 

[domd1979]

So what is happening to the space where the shop used to be?

It becomes the luggage storage and bicycle area...!

 

[jonesy]

It becomes the luggage storage and bicycle area...!

Hmmm. So how do they get more seats out of the new arrangement? I thought that was the whole point of the exercise...

 

[domd1979]

Looking at Cross Country's gen - http://crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Abo...luggage_space_for_CrossCountry_customers.aspx

Four car Voyagers only get 14 extra seats which isn't many... Probably get a few by where the shop was, shop becomes luggage / cycle area, couple of existing luggage racks become seats. Also be interesting whether the decent leg room seats survive the refurb as well.

Hmmm. So how do they get more seats out of the new arrangement? I thought that was the whole point of the exercise...

 

[jonesy]

Looking at Cross Country's gen - http://crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Abo...luggage_space_for_CrossCountry_customers.aspx

Four car Voyagers only get 14 extra seats which isn't many... Probably get a few by where the shop was, shop becomes luggage / cycle area, couple of existing luggage racks become seats. Also be interesting whether the decent leg room seats survive the refurb as well.

It is amusing how they try to spin things as being what the customer really wants... apparently we'd prefer a trolley to getting a proper cup of coffee from a buffet! Will be interesting to see how well that works when they try to get a trolley down the length of a packed XC train! And how happy will people be to leave their luggage out of sight in a separate luggage space? My suspicion is that the hole where the shop used to be will end up being mostly wasted space where for standing passengers can huddle when the train is crowded.

 

[domd1979]

The big limitation in ripping the "shops" out of Voyagers is that windows (apparently) cannot be retrofitted because of cutting into the body work, so the shop space can't really be used for seating.

 

[Tony]

Ah, that'll be the horrid little cupboard you get on those 158s... also used by Arriva trains Wales. Usually occupied with the boarding ramp and luggage. Even if you book you won't necessarily get on.

If that is the type of train from Brum to Shrooosbry, that is indeed one horrible little space.

 

[Cab]

Cambridge station has thousands of bikes! No lockers though - and the few 'secure' for-hire stands are not used - people won't pay to park a bike, is my theory, when you can do it free.

Last I looked most, if not all of the pay-for locks were being used.

Nothing like sufficient bike locking space at Cambridge station. Lots, but not enough.

 

[dan1981stu]

I've recently started to commute to work on my bike. I found that the facilities for cyclists at my local train station were not very good (newmills, highpeak) to say the least. As a result I've been forced to take my bike with me on the train!

I got some nasty looks from commuters when I wheeled my bulky dirty mountain bike onto the train. It was not until I reached Piccadilly train station in Manchester that I realised I needed something smaller. After much research I purchased a folding bike that I found here http://www.totalbike.co.uk/folding-bicycles.

The bike is great! It folds up in less than 20 seconds and only cost £160.
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http://www.totalbike.co.uk/folding-bicycles/