Cycle Chat Saddle Library Proposal

[yello]

well sod that. what do I gain?
What about the people who haven't had that luxury, and who've shelled out for a saddle that is not their ideal one and they now want to sell it?

What do YOU gain???? Fek me, you miserable scrote!

I would have thought that your appreciation of just how difficult it was for you to find the right saddle might inspire you to assist others. Obviously I am mistaken.

I'm inclined to agree though that if borrower and lender can agree a price, that the saddle can be sold from the library - less perhaps minus a flat fee. I know that's not how a library normally works but neither do I see it acting as a barrier if buyer/seller are in agreement. I dunno though, I'm still thinking about that one.

 

[MacB]

looks good to me, a couple of points:-

deposits - I understand the feeling of a need for them but paypal fees etc will mount up - I would have said that a service like this should be on a trust basis - the name and shame function should be enough security. If we do get a dodgy occurrence then we can all chip in to recompense the owner. I'd be very surprised if we got much in the way of problems with the trust method.

postage - each saddle is listed with current location described as username - when saddle is required the 'borrower' pays postage to the current holder

location - each saddle remains with current holder until requested on loan - the listing is then altered to reflect loan period and new holder/location - at end of loan period saddle listing is altered again to reflect that it's available from new holder/location. If anyone isn't happy to be a holder then they can send back to the central library at their own cost, again listing updated to reflect latest location.

buying saddles - on listing saddle should be indicated as available for sale(with a price) or library only - but you should be able to buy any saddle as some people won't want to risk a new one being slightly different(thinking Brooks here) - if you want to buy a 'library only', ie owner not looking to sell, then you should buy a new saddle the same to replace the library copy.

breakages/damages - negotiate with owner but replacing with new is the right move

hope this makes sense.....Al

 

[yello]

but you should be able to buy any saddle as some people won't want to risk a new one being slightly different(thinking Brooks here)

Exactly the scenario I was thinking of.

I think a deposit is necessary though. It saves the hassle of trying to get postage fees etc from the borrower, which could end up costing the library. Whilst I'm happy to lend my saddles to the library, I want to limit my financial liability to it!

 

[MacB]

Exactly the scenario I was thinking of.

I think a deposit is necessary though. It saves the hassle of trying to get postage fees etc from the borrower, which could end up costing the library. Whilst I'm happy to lend my saddles to the library, I want to limit my financial liability to it!

Postage fees- saddle not sent until current holder receives postage money

Financial liability - only risk is non-return of saddle without paying a purchase price - anyone signing up to the library agrees to be part of the whole thing so a loss of this nature is spread across us all. Would probably run to a few pence each.

 

[yello]

anyone signing up to the library agrees to be part of the whole thing so a loss of this nature is spread across us all.

In all honesty, I see that as being a dis-incentive to lending your spare saddles to the library.

 

[MacB]

In all honesty, I see that as being a dis-incentive to lending your spare saddles to the library.

understood but it's a fall back, worst case, scenario, I really think your underestimate the power of a trust based agreement.

Just to add that it could be down to the saddle owner, the listing could indicate whether a deposit is required or not. I'll add my spare saddles and am quite happy for them to be loaned deposit free.

 

[yello]

I really think your underestimate the power of a trust based agreement

Okay, maybe... let me rephrase then; it'd be a dis-incentive for me!

 

[Baggy]

If you are loaning saddles with a view to selling, then as mentioned, you can sign up to option 2. It doesn't mean the borrower is under any obligation to buy though.

looks good to me, a couple of points:-
deposits - I understand the feeling of a need for them but paypal fees etc will mount up - I would have said that a service like this should be on a trust basis - the name and shame function should be enough security.

Under option 2 it is up to the lender whether they want to charge a deposit. I am happy to try option 1 under a trust basis, but will still be incurring a paypal fee on postage costs anyway, and for the central library will need to add a small amount to cover packaging (brown paper etc!).

postage - each saddle is listed with current location described as username - when saddle is required the 'borrower' pays postage to the current holder

The onus will be on the owner to contact me and ask me to update the listings.

location - each saddle remains with current holder until requested on loan - the listing is then altered to reflect loan period and new holder/location - at end of loan period saddle listing is altered again to reflect that it's available from new holder/location.

Under option 2 it's up to the owner whether they request it back or not. Again, someone will need to contact me to let me know the listings need to be updated.

buying saddles - on listing saddle should be indicated as available for sale(with a price) or library only - but you should be able to buy any saddle as some people won't want to risk a new one being slightly different(thinking Brooks here) - if you want to buy a 'library only', ie owner not looking to sell, then you should buy a new saddle the same to replace the library copy.

If the owner does not want to sell, it makes it complicated and I don't want to act as sales broker! For now, I think anything in the central library should not be available for sale.

breakages/damages - negotiate with owner but replacing with new is the right move

Good point!

 

[redjedi]

This is a good idea. I quite like option 2 as I have a saddle which I've tried to sell (not very hard mind you).

I would go for option 2 where I keep hold of the saddle and would loan it out with the option to buy.
I wouldn't want a depostit, just postage costs up-front unless they live locally of course.

Some photos of the conditon of the saddle at time of loan would be a good idea. My saddle is as good as new and wouldn't want it coming back ripped and covered in oil after an accident.
Perhaps set up a flickr/photobucket account.

And if a saddle is available for sale, the spreadsheet should have the asking price on it so there are no surprises/arguments.

 

[MacB]

Oh yeah, a link to pictures in peoples profiles could be handy as well

 

[Shaun]

Ah, I think I've got a bit muddled up here.

I'd imagined, initially, that the lending library of saddles would be created by people giving away their old saddles to the central library outright. It's stuck in the shed gathering dust - might as well let someone get some use out of it!!

Lenders would then borrow a saddle or two, try, and return. Then if one in particular worked well for them, buy from a shop.

The library would then be run on a per-cost basis for the postage costs, and managed voluntarily by Baggy?

It would appear then, that there are two things going on here and option 2 isn't so much a lending library as a sort of classifieds-try-before-you-buy type of thing?

Lender puts their saddle into the lending pot and if borrower likes, they have an option to buy from the lender?

Is that roughly about it?

Cheers,
Shaun

 

[bonj2]

What do YOU gain???? Fek me, you miserable scrote!

I would have thought that your appreciation of just how difficult it was for you to find the right saddle might inspire you to assist others. Obviously I am mistaken.

I'm willing to lend a saddle for, say, a week, on the basis that if after a week the person doesn't like it, they return it to me. If they do like it, they pay me for it, probably about half RRP.
The buyer gains by being able to try out a saddle before they buy it, which they wouldn't be able to for a shop, AND they get it for a bargain price. I gain by being able to cut my losses on a saddle which is not to my liking. Everybody wins.
The system that's being proposed here seems to be far too one-sided, the 'donor' appears to be getting taken for a ride, by having their nose rubbed in it when their saddle is no longer required.
It's not going to be a very good proposition because hardly anyone will be willing to donate saddles for absolutely zero reward, hence the saddle bank will not build up to any kind of useful repertoire - instead, it will just be a few stock MTBSO-type saddles that somebody's had lying around in their garage.

 

[bonj2]

It would appear then, that there are two things going on here and option 2 isn't so much a lending library as a sort of classifieds-try-before-you-buy type of thing?

that's what I do anyway with old saddles. in fact have done so successfully with someone on this forum, Soltydog i think it was. Sent him a saddle, he didn't like it, so i've got it back. He doesn't lose anything, neither do I.
It would be nice to be part of a coordinated 'register' which would bring more interest to the potential of buying them, but i'm not posting something out just so somebody can try it and then buy a new one.

 

[Baggy]

Ah, I think I've got a bit muddled up here.

I'd imagined, initially, that the lending library of saddles would be created by people giving away their old saddles to the central library outright. It's stuck in the shed gathering dust - might as well let someone get some use out of it!!

Lenders would then borrow a saddle or two, try, and return. Then if one in particular worked well for them, buy from a shop.

The library would then be run on a per-cost basis for the postage costs, and managed voluntarily by Baggy?

It would appear then, that there are two things going on here and option 2 isn't so much a lending library as a sort of classifieds-try-before-you-buy type of thing?

Lender puts their saddle into the lending pot and if borrower likes, they have an option to buy from the lender?

Is that roughly about it?

The library idea started with a central pot (both a real and a virtual pot) but as some (not all, by any means) wanted to sell thought we could include it as an option.

I'd rather keep a saddle library separate from anything else as the "which saddle do you recommend" seems to come up far more often than "what stem" etc.

 

[Moderators]

MacB's proposal has been seperated out to

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=48242