CTC No more

[mjr]

Hebridean CC have done it through affiliation to Scottish Cycling

Club affiliation is £75/year and individual 'Ride' membership is £35/year

The obvious alternative is to affiliate to CTC/CUK at £75/year [edited after checking] and as far as I can tell from local affiliates, ride-leading members don't have to join CTC/CUK (unlike BC/SC club insurance) and there isn't all the bureaucracy and kicking people out after five rides if they don't subscribe and so on. (edited to clarify, multiple times )

Some say that the preferential treatment of affilliated groups compared to member groups is another sign that the charity leadership is trying to get rid of pesky members, leading to a couple of member groups reincarnating as affiliates.

Another way forwards is to do away with ride leaders and use the increasingly common coffee-ride style of a bunch of cyclists just meeting up and riding, popularised by SkyRide/RideSocial. No organisers, no ride leaders, no-one to be negligent other than riders themselves (edit: who aren't covered by organisers insurance anyway). That does mean you shouldn't do pacelines or the whole snaking and clear and etc but that seems to get up a lot of people's noses anyway.

 

[srw]

leak as in willfully done or leak as in hit send too soon, do you think?

I suspect wilful - there are enough people with an axe to grind and few enough people who know officially that the two are likely to overlap. But I don't know. It could simply be an enterprising journalist who's put 2 and 2 together - if there are any enterprising journalists left who would be interested.

 

[mjr]

So if anyone can replace the function of the CTC in providing Organisers liability insurance and provide an easy way to administer it at far less cost than the current full membership of £43 per person per year then I, personally, would sign up to that. Because, right now, the CTC is not what it used to be and I'm not sure that I want to continue to support it any more.

Actually, even insuring commercially (example), it would cost about £130 for the whole group, which is going to be less than CTC/CUK's £75 per group+£43 per member even if a group has only two members, plus it'll cover Dr Bike and other event types which CTC/CUK doesn't (their FAQ says they cover Dr Bike only if you don't do any repairs - a doctor who refuses to heal patients? )

 

[iandg]

The obvious alternative is to affiliate to CTC/CUK at £75/year [edited after checking] and as far as I can tell from local affiliates, members don't have to join CTC/CUK (unlike BC/SC) and there isn't all the bureaucracy and kicking people out after five rides if they don't subscribe and so on.

Some say that the preferential treatment of affilliated groups compared to member groups is another sign that the charity leadership is trying to get rid of pesky members, leading to a couple of member groups reincarnating as affiliates.

Another way forwards is to do away with ride leaders and use the increasingly common coffee-ride style of a bunch of cyclists just meeting up and riding, popularised by SkyRide/RideSocial. No organisers, no ride leaders, no-one to be negligent other than riders themselves (edit: who aren't covered by organisers insurance anyway). That does mean you shouldn't do pacelines or the whole snaking and clear and etc but that seems to get up a lot of people's noses anyway.

My understanding is that CTC and BC/SC affiliation only covers claims against leaders and officials - individuals would need to sort out there own 3rd party cover if they wanted it.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/clubs/article/20151103-membership-static-Club-insurance-Q-A-0

http://www.ctc.org.uk/membership/af...cling-clubs-and-groups-of-all-types-and-sizes

 

[mjr]

My understanding is that CTC and BC/SC affiliation only covers claims against leaders and officials - individuals would need to sort out there own 3rd party cover if they wanted it.

And my understanding is that CTC member groups insurance only covers claims against leaders and officials - individuals need to sort out their own 3rd party cover if they want it - so how is that different?

 

[sbird]

What the CTC does for my cycling club - a personal view.

Reading CTC, a CTC member group, ....

...The shocking news, apart from all the fun we have, is that a club structure is required to ensure that our member group meets the conditions of the Organisers Liability Insurance.

....

There are obscure differences which apply to the level of cover for Organisers Liability insurance when it comes to comparing a Member Group to an Affiliated Group.

One of the major ones for us in Reading CTC is that only "officers" of an Affiliated group are covered and have to have full CTC membership.

From http://ctc.org.uk/sites/default/fil...ed_bodies_organisers_liability_guidance_0.pdf

If your officers are involved in the running of a ride / event (as a ride leader, marshal, or in a similar capacity), you are covered against claims made against you or your officers for injury or damage caused to a third party.

Your officers are covered while they are a fully paid-up individual member of your organisation.

There are other differences, for example, a Member Group is covered for tours abroad (possibly subject to an additional premium)

So becoming an Affiliate Group isn't a route for us; it would mean we'd only have 7 ride leaders; with over 450 rides a year they would be cream-crackered. As a Member group any member can be registered as a ride leader and get the cover; as long as they themselves have full membership.

So, it's not the bureacracy of running the club that's a problem - we've got that sorted. It's the Organisers Liability insurance (note, not, definitely, not about 3rd party insurance - a completely different thing).

 

[mybike]

It strikes me that the way to avoid leaks is to be open and above board - then there is nothing to leak.

 

[sbird]

Actually, even insuring commercially (example), it would cost about £130 for the whole group, which is going to be less than CTC/CUK's £75 per group+£43 per member even if a group has only two members, plus it'll cover Dr Bike and other event types which CTC/CUK doesn't (their FAQ says they cover Dr Bike only if you don't do any repairs - a doctor who refuses to heal patients? )

Tried your example, signed up on the site but there was no Organisers Liability Insurace on offer. You got the £130 idea from the home page without looking at the detail. So not an option. Thanks anyway.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It strikes me that the way to avoid leaks is to be open and above board - then there is nothing to leak.

one can be open and above board and still wish to embargo certains news until an appropriate moment. A moment often determined by a comms plan linked to an operational plan.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I suspect wilful - there are enough people with an axe to grind and few enough people who know officially that the two are likely to overlap. But I don't know. It could simply be an enterprising journalist who's put 2 and 2 together - if there are any enterprising journalists left who would be interested.

My few dealings with CTC HQ make me tend towards cock-up over conspiracy. It is a stunningly inept organisation imo/ime.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Tried your example, signed up on the site but there was no Organisers Liability Insurace on offer. You got the £130 idea from the home page without looking at the detail. So not an option. Thanks anyway.

point is ctc don't underwrite the insurance, they are middlemen. Thus other policies will be available from other sources. Organiser Liability Insurance isn't exactly uncommon.

 

[srw]

point is ctc don't underwrite the insurance, they are middlemen. Thus other policies will be available from other sources. Organiser Liability Insurance isn't exactly uncommon.

All the rules of economics and insurance lead me to suspect that it will always be cheaper for a large organisation to buy collectively than for small organisations to buy individually.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

All the rules of economics and insurance lead me to suspect that it will always be cheaper for a large organisation to buy collectively than for small organisations to buy individually.

I tend to agree. But some orgs suffer from inertia and are incredibly inefficient, and haven't visited the market for years.

 

[iandg]

And my understanding is that CTC member groups insurance only covers claims against leaders and officials - individuals need to sort out their own 3rd party cover if they want it - so how is that different?

Sorry, my confusion between member group and affiliated group. I was making a comment that there's not much difference between group affiliation to SC or CTC, the cover is much the same. You're suggestion that members of an SC affiliated club have to take out individual membership of the organisation is wrong though.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Where's the press release?
http://www.ctc.org.uk/press-releases

The press release went out on 18th Feb to couple of cycling media folks but it is not on CTC press release folder (checked it on 18th Feb when I saw the media release on a cycling site). You can use these cheeky search words to find the media release "Tuohy" and "Durex". There are at least 2 cycling sites that carry the media release.

On 18th Feb, members got in their email an article on Lorry safety and I think something about Essex, nothing on rebranding till today. Sadly it is not even in the press release archive so obviously the members are not important enough to know. I saw the first hint on the other forum also on the 18th. The petition to poll the members went out on the 18th shortly after one of the cycling blogs carried the press release.

Says a lot about an organisation when they don't bother to keep a copy of their press release in their own website despite having a folder specifically for it.

Let me know if you need any further help.