CTC Membership Service

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dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Some of you with nothing better to do than go to CTC AGMs will remember that in April 2008 the AGM passed a resolution that said that the membership service wasn’t up to the job. This followed two years of pushing on my part, the pushing motivated by the large number of complaints that I’d received from all over the country – twenty in one week alone. Membership cards were being sent out with the wrong dates, renewals were being lost, telephone enquiries weren’t being answered. I’m afraid a fair few Council members were in denial.

I’d been to see the outsourced membership service in action, and I wasn’t impressed. There were clearly software problems, some of which were back at the National Office, and the harassed workers at Arvato couldn’t make up the slack

The Council, to their credit, took the 2008 resoluton on the chin, and the Chair promised that an independent report would be commissioned and presented to the 2009 AGM.

So far, so peachy keen. But, the 2009 Annual Report from Council to the membership said that an independent report had been commissioned, completed, and acted upon. This was, as I said at the time, misleading. Actually misleading is putting it nicely. An interim report had been completed by Mick Simmons, and no real action had been taken. The final report which should, and could have been complete was only commissioned from Mick around the time of the 2009 AGM.

The 2009 AGM, and its aftermath, also threw an interesting light on how the membership figures were calculated. Some of us had suspected for some time that there was a bit of padding. I asked if people who had not paid their subs were kept on the roll. I was told that if that was the case the number would not be more than 300 or 400 nationwide. A month or so after, 470 ‘members’ disappeared off the roll in Manchester.

Mick Simmons’ final report has now been completed. It should have been issued to the membership, via District Associations (or whatever we call them this week) and via Newsnet. It hasn’t. Indeed, if we see it at all, we’ll not see it before October, after the staff has had a chance to respond, after it has gone to the Management Committee, and after it has gone to Council. So, we’ll get it six months after it was promised at the very least. If membership is haemorrhaging, the people who will know are the DA secretaries who field complaints.

All this doesn’t say a lot about the CTC Council’s attitude to transparency. Which would be not such a big deal, except that at the next AGM we’re going to be asked to vote on a transfer to charity status. Let me explain.

Some of you will be surprised to read that the Club doesn’t own the National Office. It was given to something called the CTC Trust – four CTC councillors signed it over after something like a quarter of an hour’s consideration. The Trust rents part of the office back to the Club. Anyway, all the money that comes in from the DfT, or from the Big Lottery, goes not to the Club, but to the Trust. This is fine and dandy, because the Trust is there for that kind of thing. The downside is that the Trust enters in to business commitments which, if they go wrong, could wipe it out. At present the Club, although stripped of its principle asset, is a separate body. The Big Idea is to roll the Club in to the Trust. Apparently this will have tax advantages.

The transparency issue is key. The Trust runs enterprises, and it’s to be hoped that they make money. Some do, but the word from behind closed doors is that some don’t – some lose lots of money. But, dear peeps, you and I are never going to know, because all of this is ‘commercially confidential’. In the same way as the report on the membership is, for the time being, confidential. By the way - at the time of the last AGM the Club had loaned the Trust about £370,000. And legacies which, one would have thought, would go to the Club, had gone to the Trust.

So, having lost the Club’s principal asset, the members are going to be asked to roll the Club membership funds in to a Trust that runs enterprises that may or may not make a profit (and we’re never going to know) while, it would appear, that the most basic service of the Club is in such a state that we’re not allowed, for the time being, to know about that either.

If you happen to see any of your CTC Councillors it might be an idea to ask them if they’ve seen the final report from Mick Simmons, and, if they have, why we can’t. And ask them how, precisely, the members’ funds are not going to be put at risk if the Club gets folded in to the Trust.
 

Danny

Legendary Member
Location
York
Thanks for the very clear account.

However I am a little confused about how the transfer to charity status links to the Trust? Is the Trust a charitable Trust, and the idea is that the Club basically moves all its activities under the Charitable umbrella?

And, if this is the proposal, why doesn't the Trust create a separate limited company to manage any trading activities, so if they go wrong this does not jeopardise the non-profit making side of the organisation.
 
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dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Yes - that is the idea.

The option of creating stand-alone Community Interest Companies is one that a fellow Cycle Chatter might feel he wants to tell us about.....but the bigger question is why fold the Club in to the Trust in the first place? A well managed Club, doing a bit of campaigning on behalf of cycling, independent of any leverage from the Government (which is, via the Big Lottery, the DfT and local councils, the Trust's only sizeable customer) could be a wondrous thing.

I'm told by a retired accountant who knows a great deal about CTC's finances that the tax benefit will be £2000 p.a............
 

Danny

Legendary Member
Location
York
Point taken.

However there is actually considerable scope for charities to undertake non-party political campaigning work so I am not sure how big an issue this would really be, unless the CTC suddenly wants to become much more radical than it is ever been historically.

How will be Directors/Trustees of the Trust be elected in future?
 
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dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Danny said:
Point taken.

However there is actually considerable scope for charities to undertake non-party political campaigning work so I am not sure how big an issue this would really be, unless the CTC suddenly wants to become much more radical than it is ever been historically.

How will be Directors/Trustees of the Trust be elected in future?
I think you underestimate the radicalism of the CTC. Look what happened to Ladyman.

We await a proposal on the appointment of Trustees (presently Councillors are elected, albeit that the turnout is pretty low).

For me, though, the big issue is transparency. The members must appreciate, and control the risks that are run with the Club. That's not going to happen. I'm sure there's a role for an organisation such as the CTC Trust. I just don't want it to play ducks and drakes with the fortunes of the Club. And it would be nice to have the building back.
 

jonesy

Guru
dellzeqq said:
I think you underestimate the radicalism of the CTC. Look what happened to Ladyman.

We await a proposal on the appointment of Trustees (presently Councillors are elected, albeit that the turnout is pretty low).

For me, though, the big issue is transparency. The members must appreciate, and control the risks that are run with the Club. That's not going to happen. I'm sure there's a role for an organisation such as the CTC Trust. I just don't want it to play ducks and drakes with the fortunes of the Club. And it would be nice to have the building back.

I have to say it does worry me when campaigning organisations, whose role necessarily involves challenging government policy, also becomes dependent on that same government for large parts of their funding. The hats of lobbiest and consultant don't wear comfortably together; and if there has to be a choice between the two then I want the CTC to be the cyclists' advocate (a role it performs very well and I'm more than happy to pay my subs to keep Roger G et al in the field). I'd always understood that the purpose of separating the charity from the club was to ensure an appropriate degree of separation between the two roles?
 
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dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
jonesy said:
I have to say it does worry me when campaigning organisations, whose role necessarily involves challenging government policy, also becomes dependent on that same government for large parts of their funding. The hats of lobbiest and consultant don't wear comfortably together; and if there has to be a choice between the two then I want the CTC to be the cyclists' advocate (a role it performs very well and I'm more than happy to pay my subs to keep Roger G et al in the field).
absolutely

jonesy said:
I'd always understood that the purpose of separating the charity from the club was to ensure an appropriate degree of separation between the two roles?
not really - it just sort of happened. The real impetus was the sale of the old HQ to fund the National Office - transferring the building to the charity saved on stamp duty.
 

Danny

Legendary Member
Location
York
The CTC has always acted much more as a "club" than a "campaign", and its campaigning activities could at best be described as ultra-respectable.

We might well wish that it was a lot more radical, but for the foreseeable future I still think that all its likely campaigning activities could still take place under a charitable umbrella.

Rather than get hung up about legal structures, I think the focus should be on how the organisation maintains a campaigning role, when it is also in receipt of large sums of Government money.

I'd also point out that being a charity could have some long term advantages as their would be some independent scrutiny of the organisations governance and finances from the Charity Commissioners.
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
I've been having a nice long stew about this thread. Now I'm nice and tender.

I'd consider myself one of the new breed of CTC members. I'm a utility cyclist who dresses up as a roadie at weekends. The closest I'll get to touring is an 80 mile blast to a boutique hotel, where I wave my ethically-sourced credit card in the direction of the receptionist before retiring to the jacuzzi.

So why am I a member? The main reason is that the CTC appears to be, at the national level at least, the most effective campaigning organisation for cyclists in the UK. I look to the CTC to work in the rarefied world of transport politics on my behalf because I don't have the expertise, time or patience to do it myself.

The services offered by the CTC are fine, but there's little there that I couldn't find elsewhere. Cycle is usually a good read, although I weary of pro-am curmudgeon Chris Juden's sniddery. I'd be better described as a CTC stakeholder than a club member. I definitely don't look to the CTC for any sense of community or social intercourse. For me, and I suspect many other newer members, the "club" element is largely irrelevant.

I think goes some way to explaining the low turn-outs for votes. The high politics of the CTC make an interesting diversion but, in the short term, mean bugger all to members like me. If the CTC ceases to be relevent to my cycling needs, I'll just cancel. It won't make me happy, but I'll not lose sleep.

Things could get interesting if the CTC eventually follows its motorised equivalents - the AA and RAC. By degrees, both of these organisations mutated from clubs to companies* without many of their 'members' even realising they were now just consumers. I doubt the CTC will be bought up by Anglo-Chinese Taser Corp or somesuch, but an unaccountable CTC is less likely to have the pulse of the cyclist on the street (or jumping the red :sad:). As a taxpayer, I've no objection to the CTC receiving pennies from the government but then I do expect accountability in spades.




*the RAC is now owned by insurer Aviva and I believe the AA is controlled by a private-equity firm
 

MacB

Lover of things that come in 3's
Yet to join any cycling organisation, I've been following info on the CTC with interest. It's the one I feel most drawn to but I do get some worrying 'corporate style' vibes from it. Though I appreciate the view that if I don't get involved, and take an active part, then I'm being a bit hypocritical.

Transparency would be my biggest concern, I've been surrounded by 'secret squirrel' stuff all my corporate life. It's self perpetuating and has the ability to cause far more problems than it solves. At the very least agreements should be reached over what can be treated as need to know.

I think I'll be joining the CTC anyway but that's mainly due to the night rides. I feel the £36 membership fee is a small price to pay for what I get back from these. Knowing me I'll feel obliged to stck my oar in as well.
 

silverbow

New Member
Location
Suffolk
I've considered joining the CTC recently but I'm not too sure having read this thread so far.

The lack of transparency and comments like "If the membership wants to have a member-led organisation, then it needs to get involved in this issue and provide feedback. The membership can no longer sit on its hands and bemoan what is done on their behalf."

The membership is the club, not just a method of funding. If those who run the CTC feel the members are not being listen to because the members are not organised or members are complaining then shouldn't the 'club management' do something about it? Shouldn't the CTC management make efforts to work with their club members rather than see than idle whingers?

I find it interesting that there is a view that the CTC's great asset is the CTC building, it is not. The CTC asset is is membership. Without a strong membership there is no government funding / BIG Lottery / DfT / Local Councils etc.

From what I have read here it seems the CTC is losing its way.
 

silverbow

New Member
Location
Suffolk
User said:
The CTC is currently involved in a large scale governance review, which I am part of. We asked people for their thoughts and views, and gave them feedback mechanisms. We got one e-mail!

This just underlines my point though. CTC [Management] I assume are aware that there are underlining feelings and views which are not being voiced / heard for whatever reason. Lets say a feeling of general unrest?

A feedback mechanism is put in place. One feedback is received. What does this tell you?

That there is little feedback? or the feedback mechanism wasn't right for the job? or more worryingly that members have no faith that their view will be listen too? General apathy from the membership? Who knows, there are countless reasons why one feedback could have been received.

Surely it is the responsibility of the management to get these views. If the CTC campaign on behalf of their members they first must establish without any doubt what those members want from cycling?


Re: CTC Membership - Yes probably will do once I hear good things [i.e. not bad things!] about members applications / renewals.
 

silverbow

New Member
Location
Suffolk
User said:
We suffer from the same things that all large member organisations, and organisations in wider society, suffer from - a high level of apathy. Just think about how many people whinge about the Government but don't bother to vote.

You can vote for the government? :ohmy::laugh:

User said:
Don't let that put you off. CTC is a great organisation to be a member of.

Well to be honest I think your enthusiasm on this subject has convinced me actually.
 

silverbow

New Member
Location
Suffolk
User said:
Your profile piccie did make me wonder whether you were the politician fromally known as Mr Orange (a.d. Robert Kilroy-Silk).... :ohmy:

It's a mannequin from a Gentlemans outfitters in Peru. It looked very funny with the wig , wearing a dodgy suit and not to mention it had no shoes, plus the teeth painted with a gloss white only George Michael would be proud of.

But the Kilroy-Silk reference has made me consider it's time for a change....
 

Dan B

Disengaged member
Theclaud hit the nail on the head a while back (on this thread or another): as a member of a membership organisation you are not merely a consumer of the services it provides, but a participant in the things it does. And if you go into it with your "consumer" head on, you will not get as much from it as if you expect to take an active role

If your supermarket does something you don't like, you can bitch about it on forums if you want but ultimately your only option is to vote with your feet. If the CTC do something you don't like and feel strongly enough to get involved about, you can get involved and change it. It's a big organisation so I guess it doesn't necessarily feel like that because all the glossy "professional" trappings tend to settle on it like dandruff, but positions like Users, AIUI, are more or less open to anyone who can get x signatures of members and enough people voting for them.
 
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