Criterium du Dauphiné, 8-15 June 2014 ***spoilers***

[RobNewcastle]

Lopez is in the team to be a solid climber but he had an average at best tour last year. They need more from him especially if Porte isn't firing. Saturday will answer a lot of questions because there's a couple of really tough climbs. Sky can't afford to be carrying too many.

I think of Kennaugh rides well in Swiss he should come back into the team and I guess it'll be between Pate/Knees for the last position.

 

[Louch]

froome looking very Armstrong like yesterday.

 

[MikeG]

..........I guess it'll be between Pate/Knees for the last position.

Forgive an ignorant question.......but when you say "the last position", why so? I thought that teams could be any size. Is that not the case?

 

[Louch]

9 per team

 

[robertob]

You're concerned about Froome's performance but you're bigging up an actual convicted doper? Interesting.

Nope, you probably see that in the wrong context. All I said is I hope there is a race on in July and I suspect that if there is a bit of action, that one of the two names mentioned could emerge as a contender to put a bit of pressure on Froome. Where you see the correlation with doping... I don't know.

If you don't share my doubts about the nature of Froome's performance, that's fair enough. I would also love to believe he is clean - but I admit that I begin to doubt. That's all. For me he looks like super human and unbeatable, which reminds me of one certain former US rider. In general the way he races and wins, puts the expression of "unbelievable" on my face. And I start to find it hard to believe that performances like that are possible to achieve only on the basis of espresso with honey, as Froome stated recently as his secret for success. It was a monster performance from Froome yesterday anyway, doesn't matter if start of the Dauphine or in the middle of a three weeks tour. Those accelerations in succession, again and again, and still he pulled clear of the rest, with some decent climbers in the field, while only Contador able to follow... it was astonishing - for me at least.

I would like to think Kelderman is very much race fit from the Giro and was rather expected to put in a good performance at this early stage of the Dauphine. I would expect him to get into trouble towards the end though.

But don't get me wrong. After all, I want to see spectacular racing. However I'm well aware that doping will always be part of this sport in one or another way. It's not that I want to be the upholder of moral standards though. If they are on the juice - well so it be. Nothing I can do about it and doesn't affect my interest in the sport. I was just watching last weekend the highlights of the 1996 tour. Great racing! But we all know it was during the heights of EPO doping. All I say is "Mr. 60%". Still it was fantastic racing (including some unbelievable performances). And that is what matters for me in the end. It still is a brutal sport for these guys out there, with our without doping. And I have huge respect for all of them. But just because I'm well aware of that, it doesn't mean that I can't doubt certain performances and riders when I find it increasingly hard to believe that it is all down to "only" hard training...

 

[Crackle]

.... It was a monster performance from Froome yesterday anyway, doesn't matter if start of the Dauphine or in the middle of a three weeks tour. Those accelerations in succession, again and again, and still he pulled clear of the rest, with some decent climbers in the field, while only Contador able to follow... it was astonishing - for me at least...

Just on this: in terms of monster performances, it's not a patch on the 90's performances where riders would attack and sustain it. Panatani, Risse, Armstrong and others put in those kind of attacks and from a long way out, 12K or more. Froomes attack was not in that league, he jumped and then slowed and others came back. Despite his jumps, they were all pretty much together until 500m and both him and Contador really looked like they were suffering in the last 100. People talk about times up climbs being similar, which makes it unbelievable but the style of riding has changed and teams ride tempo, which with a few exceptions they didn't up until recently, preferring a trusted lieutenant to accompany their favourite. Even a juiced up Motorola used to shed their team pretty quickly once on the last hill.

I reserve the right to be surprised but I'm not seeing anything truly unbelievable and when you do it sticks out, like Sayar at the Tour of Turkey, a complete unknown riding a huge gear up a mtn stage and winning. Then there's the usual suspects long associated with a dodgy past who you can never really trust again.

 

[Dave Davenport]

Whilst I wouldn't bet my house on it, I believe Froome is clean. It wasn't like he was a mile up the road on his own and the accelerations weren't sustained for 10+ minutes in the way doped (and those eating Spanish steak) riders used to.

 

[RobNewcastle]

You can call me massively naive but I firmly believe Froome races clean. Brailsford stakes too much of his reputation with the anti-drug stance and I just don't believe he'd allow anything like that to go on in his teams. I also believe Froome's anti-drug stance too. Comparing him to Armstrong is farcical.

Froome was racing dogged by bilharzia for years which affected his immune system with relapses. That's been sorted and he trains like a bastard at altitude which is good enough for me as his reason for super human form.

If Froome was done for doping however I'd probably call it quits with cycling though and lose interest. It would be one scandal too far

 

[rich p]

It looked absolutely nothing like a dominant, dope-fuelled Armstrong performance. He was in agony, Contador was grimacing, a 21 year old Yates was only 40 odd seconds back in 9th place.
LA would have been minutes ahead and scarcely puffing.

 

[robertob]

Froomes attack was not in that league, he jumped and then slowed and others came back. Despite his jumps, they were all pretty much together until 500m and both him and Contador really looked like they were suffering in the last 100.

That is true, however we shouldn't forget that they went quite some pace before (visually it looked like that to me at least). Sky really put on the pressure and we saw many decent riders and climbers to struggle. Based on that, to be able to attack the way Froome did following this, it was astonishing for me. But that was my impression, which I see doesn't match the impression of most others, which is fair enough. I don't want to start a Froome doped/not doped discussion anyway. It was great and enjoyable racing yesterday and that is what matters most. It's just I personally feel that my formerly firm believe in Froome being absolutely clean, to be slightly but steadily shattered. Which doesn't mean I'm so mean to want him being tested positive or anything. There are obviously valid arguments brought up from others here to suggest everything is perfectly fine, which is good and I'm not claiming to be right anyway.

 

[tug benson]

froome looking very Armstrong like yesterday.

I think it's the clinic you're looking for

 

[Louch]

I think it's the clinic you're looking for

I think I need Fromes "inhaler"

 

[Hont]

It looked absolutely nothing like a dominant, dope-fuelled Armstrong performance. He was in agony, Contador was grimacing, a 21 year old Yates was only 40 odd seconds back in 9th place.
LA would have been minutes ahead and scarcely puffing.

+1 Armstrong attacked then maintained that speed and finished 2-3 minutes clear. Froome made an enormous effort to get rid of Contador but failed and had to recover - going more slowly than the speed he attacked from (hence Kelderman overtaking when he did not slow to match Froome's pace).

We don't truly know if they're all racing clean, but comparisons with the Armstrong era are simplistic and uninformed.

 

[robertob]

Of course Froome's performance is nothing compared to what Aromstrong did in his best years. That was a complete different sport those days. But Froome and his team appear to be extremely dominant which does remind me to a certain extend at least on these "good old days". As stated before: The fact to make it such a fast race going up the mountain that some decent riders, that I would consider to climb not too badly, to fade away so easily, and then to be able to take it up from there and accelerate in succession in a way Froome did, and to win it in the end against the main rival - who would have attacked if you have been able to - I thought this was utterly dominant... and impressive... and great racing! And that it was a hell of an effort - of course! If he wouldn't have felt this effort in his legs, then he would be indeed a "super human".

If this kind of perception of things make me uninformed in the eyes of some - well so it be. I have to live with it. It's my opinion, and I stay with it, because this is the way I feel it.

 

[themosquitoking]

Of course Froome's performance is nothing compared to what Aromstrong did in his best years. That was a complete different sport those days. But Froome and his team appear to be extremely dominant which does remind me to a certain extend at least on these "good old days". As stated before: The fact to make it such a fast race going up the mountain that some decent riders, that I would consider to climb not too badly, to fade away so easily, and then to be able to take it up from there and accelerate in succession in a way Froome did, and to win it in the end against the main rival - who would have attacked if you have been able to - I thought this was utterly dominant... and impressive... and great racing! And that it was a hell of an effort - of course! If he wouldn't have felt this effort in his legs, then he would be indeed a "super human".

If this kind of perception of things make me uninformed in the eyes of some - well so it be. I have to live with it. It's my opinion, and I stay with it, because this is the way I feel it.

This is assuming all those riders that faded away were in a good enough condition to compete on that day. Clearly Porte, for one, wasn't.