crash involving riders and race vehicles

[roadrash]

following on from the giro spoilers thread, i am interested to see how many people think the race should or should not be stopped or neutralised , after a crash involving riders and race vehicles,i would like to know your reasoning too ,
Taking yesterday as an example, although i don't wish to see accidents involving vehicles, I personally think it was right to continue racing, sh!t can happen in any form and to anyone at any time, i see it as part of racing.
I also don't understand this unwritten rule of waiting for race leader if they have a mechanical, every rider is in the same boat it can happen indescrimminatly, i see it as just part of racing.

I'm hoping it doesn't descend into a slanging match, everyone has and is entitled to their own views , I'm just interested to hear them

 

[mjr]

I think the race should be red-flagged and restarted from some fair situation because the last few years show that we need to provide more incentive for race organisers to keep race vehicles out of the way. It hasn't just wrecked people's races: it has wrecked lives. Changes should be made to make it in the interest of ALL teams to apply pressure for safer race vehicle behaviour and by making the race organisers look as silly as possible stopping the race - remember how uncomfortable everyone looked when the London-Surrey Classic got red-flagged for other reasons last year?

The current situation where it's a lottery and only a minority of teams suffer from race vehicle interventions means that it's in the interest of maybe half the peloton to see a race vehicle take out someone else as long as it's not them. That's not right.

I agree about the unwritten rules around waiting for leader(s) being shoot, though.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Racing is racing, mechanical faults can happen at any time to anybody, unfortunately being involved in an incident is part of racing.

They should focus more on controlling the external factors and keep the riders safe, rather than just stopping and restarting races.

 

[Slaav]

I think (with my limited poor knowledge of the rules etc) that there are very strong arguments on both sides?

We have seen urine sprayed into rider's faces. We have seen a camera car wipe out two big names? We have seen the recent Giro incident. Is it such a leap to consider that external factors could become the overall deciding factors in who wins and who loses? when will we see a 'fan' make a decisive input to a race and determine the winner? what if a team car takes somebody out? What if a 'neutral' car breaks down in a steep climb causing a split? etc etc....

 

[roadrash]

many times we have seen fans( i hesitate to use that word ) take out a rider through stupidity, we have seen camera cars,, team cars service cars, motorbikes all have an impact on the race,and riders, I'm as guilty as the next person in saying it shouldn't happen, but in reality , what can be done about it,

 

[Dogtrousers]

As I said in the Giro thread, such occurrences are impossible to legislate for. Grand Tours have a long tradition of Commisaires making it up as they go along in reaction to events, and that's probably the best model.

Better for cycling to concentrate on ways to prevent these things from happening than to invest time in some complex structure of (probably ambiguous and unworkable) regulations for dealing with them when they do.

Also, the vast majority of us don't have a clue about what really happens inside a pro race. I'm certainly not in a position to say what should or should not happen. As a spectator, I'm perfectly happy to accept such incidents as stuff that happens. I'm not keen on faffing around with results after the fact, and I have no idea whether stopping and restarting the race would even be practical or fair. What would the other riders be expected to do? Hang around getting cold while the crashed riders get restarted?

 

[jonny jeez]

unfortunately being involved in an incident is part of racing.

Is that true though.as its a team sport can other members of the support team be somehow motivated to take less care around a competitor.?

 

[Crackle]

I don't think you can make a rule. Each moment needs to be judged on the day. The commissaires don't always get the rules right so situations like this are always going to controversial with divided opinions.

 

[mjr]

I'm pretty disappointed with people saying it's too hard so let's not bother trying and keep on with the current situations of riders taken out by race vehicles increasingly often and the race being neutralised based on whether anyone famous was hit, such as Froome in the Tour.

I agree we should concentrate on reducing how often it happens but how do you overcome the current perverse incentives for race organisers to keep accepting vehicles on the course and not controlling them strictly and for other teams to see vehicles reduce the competition? I know basic humanity means most people want to see everyone stay well, buy why not remove these horrible incentives by penalising the entire race and organisation for each incident, as interrupting the race would?

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Is that true though.as its a team sport can other members of the support team be somehow motivated to take less care around a competitor.?

I'd be in favour of ditching the support cars entirely. It seems a bit strange that cars, and their support feature so heavily in a cycle race. I wanna see the tdf with saddle bags of tools.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I'd be in favour of ditching the support cars entirely. It seems a bit strange that cars, and their support feature so heavily in a cycle race. I wanna see the tdf with saddle bags of tools.

Swinging OT, the huge extent of the support operation of a Grand tour was really brought home to me last year when I went riding along the route of a TdF stage early in the morning before the ride came through, and I appreciated it more than when I've just been plonked by the roadside. I saw the trucks going along dropping off teams of people at regular points doing the road closures. A steady stream of race cars went past (this was hours before even the caravan was due). There were busy people, working for the Tour and gendarmes everywhere. At one point five helicopters went over. I think they were possibly on their way to the start. And that's before you even get to the general public and the hordes of camper vans.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Rather than neutralise/red flag after such incidents why not concentrate on the issue?

How many media and police motos are going to be involved or directly cause incidents before enough is enough? How many are actually needed? Is training a high enough standard? Refresher courses?

 

[mjr]

Rather than neutralise/red flag after such incidents why not concentrate on the issue?

How many media and police motos are going to be involved or directly cause incidents before enough is enough? How many are actually needed? Is training a high enough standard? Refresher courses?

Neutralising the race after a race vehicle incident is concentrating on the issue - race vehicles altering the race!

Faffing about regulating the number of vehicles and the training is basically what the likes of ASO have been doing for years with on-course accreditations, but that's not worked and I feel it's focusing on possible causes rather than the actual issue itself. Target the outcome and the causes will be dealt with, whatever they are.

 

[roadrash]

if the race was stopped and then restarted , how do they start every rider at exactly the same time gap as they was from each other immediately before the incident .

 

[mjr]

if the race was stopped and then restarted , how do they start every rider at exactly the same time gap as they was from each other immediately before the incident .

Not our problem. There is already a protocol for neutralising races, so that problem already has a solution, whether or not you like the finer detail of it. In fact, if it encourages the neutralisation protocol to be improved, that would be a secondary benefit!

Basically, all I would propose is removing the race director's discretion from UCI regulation 2.2.029 if one of their vehicles is involved in the incident and requiring them to neutralise the race in that case.