Cracked Condor Fratello steel frame - Excellent response from Condor

[HJ]

Interesting, now where are all those people who go on about "steel is real" and tell us that steel frames are indestructible??

 

[potsy]

Interesting, now where are all those people who go on about "steel is real" and tell us that steel frames are indestructible??

Buy cheap,Buy twice (only joking Tynan)

 

[Steve Austin]

It looks the crack started at the rear, just above the stays, then spread around the tube, then split when it hit the welds.
I don't think you'll be able to argue the bike wasn't fit for purpose, or argue that it should be replaced under warranty. I might be wrong though.

You could get it fixed by Argos, if Condor won't do it
http://www.argoscycl...n-pricelist.htm

Would you mind explaining why you say that?

What have I done to cause this? Surely i can expect a £800 bike to last for longer than this, google shows quite a few COndor bikes failing in the same way after anything from 8 months to 2 years after being bought, that can't be right surely?

genuine questions btw

Forget rust. no frame on this planet would rust through in two years. My guess is that the welds on the seatstays where they joined the seatube, had a stress riser that over time has caused the crack. the crack has then crept around the seattube... but then again i'm no framebuilder and i don't weld stuff. Just that is what it looks like to me.
If you can argue that the frame was defective (ie that the welds were bad when it was made) and that is what caused the crack initially, then you may be able to argue that they (as the frame was not fit for purpose) should have to replace the frame.

If you want to know how to take them to court, i can do that

 

[Gerry Attrick]

IMHO there is a manufacturing fault here. Because of the rider's weight (no offence), the seat post clamp action and riding forces, this is one of the most stressed parts of a frame. Builders are aware of this of course and should leave nothing to chance. Assuming the frame is butted, then the thicker walls should all meet snugly at this point. When they have been welded or brazed , the tubes must be treated correctly to avoid brittleness. Clearly I cannot say this has not happened here, but it is a possibility. If you get a blank from Condor, then it would be well worth a few quid to get a metallurgists report. Don't just accept Condor's opinion unless it suits you to do so.

 

[Tynan]

Thank-you peeps, that tallies with my uninformed opinion (other than a Mech Eng degree a long time ago)

As I've posted, google shows a fair few people reporting Condor frames failing at this exact same point and in the same sort of time intervals

be assured that I'm not going to accept Condor saying no to this one, nothing has happned to this bike to cause this and I refuse to believe that they will/can say that they sell £800 bikes that only last a little over two years before failing like this, and it could of course have been rather nasty

if it has to go to legals, I think there's a perfectly convincing case, hopefully Condor will do the right thing

please not have a steel bashing thing, bad design/manufacturing/whatever will cause problems regardless of the material

as for seatpost, it's the frame they measured me for, I'll post how much seatpost I'm showing tomorrow but it's nothing silly, I'm 6ft1in on a 58cm semi compact frame, if anything I was thinking of raising it a little more lately, if the amount of seatpost I'm showing is too much, then the seatpost they fitted is far too short, I can't repeat myself enough, I'm a bread and butter commuter, as for my weight, how heavy is rider of a 58cm frame supposed to be?

thanks again, I'm planning to take it in to them on Tuesday morning, not that I'm much looking forward to lugging in there and back again

 

[andrew_s]

Interesting, now where are all those people who go on about "steel is real" and tell us that steel frames are indestructible??

That's the proper brazed and lugged steel frames, not these newfangled cheapo welded ones

 

[Smokin Joe]

Interesting, now where are all those people who go on about "steel is real" and tell us that steel frames are indestructible??

That's the proper brazed and lugged steel frames, not these newfangled cheapo welded ones

You mean all those millions of "lasting a lifetime" steel frames that seem to have disappeared off the face of the earth in the last decade?

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Interesting, now where are all those people who go on about "steel is real" and tell us that steel frames are indestructible??

Interesting indeed, but because if a carbon or aluminium frame had similar damage the rider is probably in hospital or worse by now because carbon and aluminium are highly susceptible to catastrophic failure once a crack has developed. In this case, despite his potential loss we have the happy outcome of Tynan walking away unharmed for goodness know how long he has been riding a cracked frame!

Now regarding damage generally, as we all know frames and components can be damaged for all sorts of reasons. I have no defendable statistics but IME I see many posts raised e.g. by "concerned carbon owners" in this and other forums for each of steel. Also IMHO when one can conduct a learned discussion on how to clamp a carbon frame on to a workstand or a car rack because otherwise it can easily be badly damaged, any debate on whether a steel or a carbon frame is more susceptible to damage becomes moot.

Please note I am not knocking carbon/aluminium - their weight advantage is wonderful and I use both myself, we just need to be clear about different materials' strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Tynan]

can someone start a steel thread please if they want to do 20 pages of this

I'd like to keep this one on topic please

thanks and good night all
Tynan

 

[rustychisel]

Blimey!!!! That is CHAPTER and VERSE, that crack is. It's quite unusual to see one progressed to that stage; did you not hear or feel it creaking and grinding??

Anyway, I concur with Steve, looks like it started where the seatstays are welded in and crept forward from there. And I concur with you, that's bollox for a 2 year old frame, regardless of material.

Good luck getting sorted; you've had a degree of luck already - after all, it didn't dump your arse on the rear wheel mid-ride, did it? That's luck, that is.

 

[Steve Austin]

Tynan, if you do intend to follow this until you get to a result that you are happy with, it will be useful if you decide what ultimately you will be happy with. In the event that Condor need further persuasion, you will need to be able to show the court that they have not offered you a reasonable solution/replacement.

several possible outcome imo
1 full replacement
2 subsidised replacement ie cheap replacement frame
3 free repair
4 Repair at cost

The other option is they tell you they will not fix it, replace it etc

I don't know what the likely outcome will be, but i think the best you can hold out for is 2, although i do think it is very likely that Condor will not offer you anything.

but you need to see what they say before you start thinking of any further action..

 

[Tynan]

Again, the pictures are rather graphic, it doesn't look anything like as bad in real life unless you really look for it, and the horrible side was under a piece of tape with the rear brake cable pressed on top of that, I've very happy with it not going mid ride

There has been a bit of a click noise for the last couple of months when I either braked sharply or gave it some oomph through the handlebars, I had that down to the head set which defo is needing replacement and is notchy, I still think that was the headset

Steve, thanks for that, yes, I appreciate that Condor have a range of responses, I found one example on the net where they gave someone £200, presumably out of the goodness of their heart

Frankly I want a replacement frame either new or in same nick, it seems to me that I paid for something that I didn't get and I think from the stories on the internet that this is a known fault that they must be aware of, I suppose I can meet them somewhere on the way regarding the cost of a frame, if a whole bike is £1000 these days, what would the frame alone be, I suppose it then has to be built up too

Surely a frame simply should not fail like that after that period of time of routine usage? My limited legal knowledge suggests to me that a good case exists already

Anyhow, they've very politely and cordially asked me to bring it in for them to look at, with proof of purchase, gulp, see what happens indeed, of course

thanks again
Tynan

 

[Tynan]

oh

do you think that that frame is repairable? I assume that means welding it? or would it mean replacing at least the seat tube?

I know nothing about what's possible or more importantly desirable, that said a whole new frame might presumably do exactly the same thing in a year or two's time

 

[fossyant]

You are looking at a seat tube/toptube replacement minimum. TBH that's crap build quality. I have a steel SLX that is 20 years old and a Ribble 653 that is 15. You should have spotted that crack earlier, and it is bad.

You do need to clean the bike more - if nothing else it's a safety check when cleaning, is that you spot things before they become a problem.

Condor should replace the frame, that's unacceptable.

 

[Tynan]

You are looking at a seat tube/toptube replacement minimum. TBH that's crap build quality. I have a steel SLX that is 20 years old and a Ribble 653 that is 15. You should have spotted that crack earlier, and it is bad.

You do need to clean the bike more - if nothing else it's a safety check when cleaning, is that you spot things before they become a problem.

Condor should replace the frame, that's unacceptable.

I should spotted it earlier to avoid killing myself but that wouldn't have changed anything would it? It would always have been major repair/new frame wouldn't it? I ask in case I get that tomorrow thrown back at me.

And yes, I should check more carefully, I thought I was checking but I wasn't looking for that sort of thing, I had some silly idea that the bike was a new steel frame and would be fine, I know different now of course

I promise to do better in future on inspection, the RHS is quite discrete, tbh I'm pleased I spotted that, I might not have on a cloudy day