Cost for staying in care homes for the elderly.....scary

[Dave7]

The scandal of social care provision is a national disgrace but doesn’t mean everyone should live off the state their whole life just in case.

That is true but you must see it from other peoples view.
As I said, the auntie is 96. She worked till she was 80.
She now pays for everything whereas people on the dole** get it for free.
In her block of approx 40 flats SHE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT PAYS FULL RENT. Lots of foreign people living there rent free.
When she goes into the care home her savings will be quickly swallowed up.
You cannot blame people for questioning how unfair the system is.
**I worked solid for 48 years. Was on the dole once for 6 months (during the 80s depression). I saw, even then, how unfair the system is and I still have a bad taste when I recall it.

 

[Kajjal]

The only realistic solution is to pool the cost in the same way people pay towards the NHS where some are lucky with their health rarely using the NHS but other have poor health often the more elderly treated free at point of use. The problem is no one wants to pay for it as shown by the posts about how to transfer assets so they can inherit by putting the cost on the tax payer which means tax payer funds are diverted from elsewhere. The tradition approach of blaming others while making the problem worse through our own action is why it is like this now, along with care providers being loaded up with debt which is then extracted pushing up costs signicantly.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The only realistic solution is to pool the cost in the same way people pay towards the NHS where some are lucky with their health rarely using the NHS but other have poor health often the more elderly treated free at point of use. The problem is no one wants to pay for it as shown by the posts about how to transfer assets so they can inherit by putting the cost on the tax payer which means tax payer funds are diverted from elsewhere. The tradition approach of blaming others while making the problem worse through our own action is why it is like this now, along with care providers being loaded up with debt which is then extracted pushing up costs signicantly.

Although I agree & at the risk of following your Political leanings, as usual it's not as simple as that, those that have saved have had to earn their money somewhere, so logically they have already paid for their share of the pie which they would get back if within a care home. Care homes are now big business, they must be or the Venture Capitalists would not be buying them up, they are not in it for the good of the nation, they are only in it for one thing Profit! the care side is secondary to them, yes I am a cynic when it comes to VC's.

 

[Mr Celine]

That is true but you must see it from other peoples view.
As I said, the auntie is 96. She worked till she was 80.
She now pays for everything whereas people on the dole** get it for free.
In her block of approx 40 flats SHE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT PAYS FULL RENT. Lots of foreign people living there rent free.
When she goes into the care home her savings will be quickly swallowed up.
You cannot blame people for questioning how unfair the system is.
**I worked solid for 48 years. Was on the dole once for 6 months (during the 80s depression). I saw, even then, how unfair the system is and I still have a bad taste when I recall it.

Both yourself and your auntie are presumably benefiting from a state pension that is more generous than the one that us workers, who are actually paying for it, will ever get. For example she could have retired at 60 and you at 65, if married she could have inherited contributions from a deceased spouse and she could have additional pension entitlements from, for example, SERPS.
Whatever state pension you or her are getting is just a benefit the same as the housing benefit that the other tenants are getting. If she wasn't getting retirement pension she'd get the housing benefit instead.
There is no cupboard at the treasury containing all your national insurance contributions, which are just another form of income tax. Your NI contributions and income tax paid for yesterday's pensioners, the same as my contributions and income tax are paying for yours.

So if you think you've got it bad spare a thought for us workers.

 

[Kingfisher101]

I think people will be very shocked if they need care and have signed their houses over to their children that the Local Authority will still get their money and the house wont be going to your children. They will go back now over 7 years and see why it was handed over if its to avoid possible care fees then it will be seen as deprivation of capital etc. It will be really gone into. They have got wise to this.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I think people will be very shocked if they need care and have signed their houses over to their children that the Local Authority will still get their money and the house wont be going to your children. They will go back now over 7 years and see why it was handed over if its to avoid possible care fees then it will be seen as deprivation of capital etc. It will be really gone into. They have got wise to this.

As I put upstream it's not 7 years for local authorities there is no statute of limitations on how far they can go back.

 

[fossyant]

As I put upstream it's not 7 years for local authorities there is no statute of limitations on how far they can go back.

Exactly, they aren't stupid about depravation of assets. SIL thought we could sell MIL's house to her 'cheap', or no, has to be matket value and as MrsF has POA she has to work in her mum's best interest - i.e. maximise asset value.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Exactly, they aren't stupid about depravation of assets. SIL thought we could sell MIL's house to her 'cheap', or no, has to be matket value and as MrsF has POA she has to work in her mum's best interest - i.e. maximise asset value.

The key to deprivation of assets is intent. If you deprive yourself of assets even by quite legitimate means like putting it into trusts and your intention in doing so is to secure title to, or an increase in, benefit then you may get caught out. Whilst it is true to say that the longer the time that elapses between disposal and claim then the likelihood of deprivation being pursued/succeeding reduces. There is though no time limit after which you are 'safe'.

The fact that Tenants in Common v Joint Tenants can make a difference is news to me - my work is with working age benefits not the elderly. The theory seems to be that, on first death, a share is left to children rather than the surviving spouse.

 

[BoldonLad]

Any chance to turn it political!

Put any assets into a trust then the state can't touch it.

One of my Brothers-in-law has recently gone down this route.

He is an ardent student of ensuring he and/or his children get their share of anything going.

Remains to be seen if this ruse works or not.

 

[Deleted User]

One of my Brothers-in-law has recently gone down this route.

He is an ardent student of ensuring he and/or his children get their share of anything going.

Remains to be seen if this ruse works or not.

Ruse?

Wanting your assets to go to your loved ones.

 

[mikeIow]

Ruse?

Wanting your assets to go to your loved ones.

I imagine the ‘ruse’ was referring to whether the Trusts “pass muster” when invoked, not the intent to pass money/property downwards.
You have read up on “deprivation of assets”, right?

 

[Deleted User]

I imagine the ‘ruse’ was referring to whether the Trusts “pass muster” when invoked, not the intent to pass money/property downwards.
You have read up on “deprivation of assets”, right?

I know of 2 people who have done this and their remaining parent went into a home and the house remained in the trust.
You have you read up on "Asset Trust Fund ", right?

Why people offer advice on anything on this Forum is beyond me, all people seem to do is argue the toss and try to discredit the advice offered.

Do what you want for me pal.👍

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Why people offer advice on anything on this Forum is beyond me, all people seem to do is argue the toss and try to discredit the advice offered.

I hope you realise the irony of your post?

 

[BoldonLad]

Ruse?

Wanting your assets to go to your loved ones.

Ruse as explained by @mikeIow .

I have no problem with people passing on their hard earned assets to their children/grandchildren.

I do have a problem with people talking equality and social conscience whilst grabbing anything going, which, IMHO, my brother-in-law is prone to. But, you could not be expected to know that.

 

[mikeIow]

I know of 2 people who have done this and their remaining parent went into a home and the house remained in the trust.
You have you read up on "Asset Trust Fund ", right?

Why people offer advice on anything on this Forum is beyond me, all people seem to do is argue the toss and try to discredit the advice offered.

Do what you want for me pal.👍

Yes, I have.

I’m sure many have success in their endeavours.....but it is not without risk.
You clearly disagree.
We can agree to disagree: we are mere strangers on a forum, anyone after advice will want more than our ideas. You act as though your advice is the whole truth, and no other points are valid. A brave position to take on a topic this complex!

& unless I’ve missed something, Trust Funds are not something free to set up and manage.
Depends how complex you want your life to be, I guess.

Not sure why you are antsy about my suggestions this may not be all plain sailing.

https://ukcareguide.co.uk/avoiding-care-home-fees - talks more on this.