Corporal punishment. Yes or No

[gbb]

Corporal punishments a waste of time in the long term.
Whats needed is to address the reasons our kids misbehave in the first place...lack of control, lack of respect, lack of decent role models, lack of something better to do, etc etc etc.....oh, and although i suspect its the childrens own fault, the mistrust and suspicion we have grown to harbour against them in general. I've noticed if you try to engage with kids...they respect you for it.

In the short term though....maybe...IF its administered ABSOLUTELY without malice (if that makes sense) and fairly.

 

[col]

Corporal punishments a waste of time in the long term.
Whats needed is to address the reasons our kids misbehave in the first place...lack of control, lack of respect, lack of decent role models, lack of something better to do, etc etc etc.....oh, and although i suspect its the childrens own fault, the mistrust and suspicion we have grown to harbour against them in general. I've noticed if you try to engage with kids...they respect you for it.

In the short term though....maybe...IF its administered ABSOLUTELY without malice (if that makes sense) and fairly.

Thats the whole point GBB,your last sentence.But the general idea is to be something they wont get,hopefully

 

[col]

It is barbaric. if any teacher laid a hand on my son I'd make them eat excrement.

This is one reason why it wont come back,

 

[Will1985]

Which countries did you have in mind?

Those that I've spoken to about national service (from France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland) all viewed it as a total waste of their time which provided no benefit to their respective countries.

Let's see - 6 German friends who did the voluntary service option and loved it; 1 Italian friend who did voluntary service, and his cousin who went to the army which transformed him for the better according to the whole family and himself; 1 French family friend did military service then changed his future plans and decided to enter the army full time. I also have other friends who are coming up to National Service age in various countries too such as Switzerland where it is difficult to get out of.

They are all male and all said that it was a valuable life changing experience.

I think the difference is that in some of these European countries, the family is a close knit unit so sometimes the "children" feel too protected and National Service is a way for them to be able to mature, whereas in the UK, the value of family is supposedly dying and by being more independent from a younger age, you feel as though you don't need a specific period of your young adulthood to make that transition - in my opinion and experience anyway.

 

[Keith Oates]

In some cases it may have been needed but generally I think it's better without it. Having said that caning was carried out at my school and I can't remember one case where it wasn't desrved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[col]

I got slippered a few times at school. I remember it as a partially positive thing, it certainly made the recipients more attractive to the girls The whole bravado thing, no crying or squeeling out, no matter how hard it was given. All it taught me was not to be seen as weak by someone who has the advantage. I got 2 extra once for saying "is that it then?". I think it even helped to shape me into the violent little shoot I was in the Army and my early 20s.

I am now completely against corporal punishment, we have never, ever laid a hand on our children, and I am totally with BTFB, if a teacher/scout master/coach laid a hand on my children I know I would revert to how I was a few years ago now

I wonder how many of the antisocial kids, knew that their parents would sort anyone in authourity ,who dared to try and punish them,when the cane was used in the old days? just a thought.

 

[buggi]

At my school they had to have parents permission to give corporal punishment anyway. the thing is, it's not just the fact that teachers can't give out punishments, one of the main problems is they are not backed up by parents.

my friend is a teaching assistant, and you should see the bruises she comes home with. guess how old the kids are.... FIVE! can you imagine what they will be like when they are teens?

they kick, spit, punch, swear and are completely uncontrollable... and she now works in a "better area" (having previously worked with inner city kids who she says were better behaved). she comes home with severe bruising and scratches. the school has had to send it's teachers on courses to teach them how to "restrain" children.

what kind of support do they get from the parents? well for example, one kid in her class went up to the teacher stuck his fingers in her cheek and literally ripped it open. when they called the parents down to the school, their attitude was, "o well, he's only 5"

i'm not saying your should cane a child but i think some sort of discipline is definitely required here, and support from parents to the teachers.

 

[asterix]

Reversion to corporal punishment would simply be an admission of failure IMO. After all, the army and navy used floggings (sometimes resulting in death) but they abandoned such measures long ago. I don't hear that the army or navy is now rife with mutinies.

 

[Andy in Sig]

The point has been well made that CP should never be used in the heat of the moment by a teacher who has lost self control but it never did any harm when administered as a punishment where you knew it was the penalty if you did things wrong.

Recently some parents in Liverpool (working class note; not north London right on types) went to court to ask for CP to be reintroduced into their schools. They were of course turned down.

IMO it should be down to parents and every borough should be made to run one school on the old fashioned lines if the parents want it. It would then be very interesting to do a long term study on the kinds of kids the two types of schools produced as opposed to simple theorising.

 

[mr_hippo]

Does the use of corporal punishment lead to a violent society - NO
Does not using corporal punishment lead to a peaceful society - NO

 

[col]

I wasnt hinting at your kids being antisocial,but was making a general comment.even as a school kid,i can remember the minority of baduns ,when they were doing things that they shouldnt,on being told by theyre mates,but you will get caned if your caught.The answer was usually,they wouldnt dare,my dad would kill them.So because the parents didnt support the school against bad behaviour,i think it definitely contributed to making it worse.And i agree with the feelings of injustice ,if or when we were punished for something we hadnt done,or mistakenly so.But im not in any way saying a teacher can punish on a knee jerk reaction,as you have pointed out,when done because of the heat of the moment,mistakes are made,and it doesnt benefit anyone.