corporal punishment - never did me any harm

[growingvegetables]

Dell has a very good point here... As an adult, having a heated debate with another adult where neither refuses to back down, then one decides to physically attack the other (an all too common occurrence)... they would be considered an idiot and a thug. But at least they're lashing out at somebody their own size when 'words fail'. Doing the same to ones kids does not make a moral and upstanding parent, just another idiot who thinks that the use of a physical attack somehow solves problems.

+1


The (fallible) art/skill/magic of being able to facing somebody who's losing/lost it, and acting to defuse and resolve the situation.

Going back to a previous bit of the discussion - "lack of discipline in the family" just doesn't cut it. "Lack of the magic/skill/art of defusing/de-escalating in too many families, under stress for a whole range of reasons". Hell, it might be accurate, but it ain't catchy, it's a bit of a mouthful, and something tells me it won't hit the text-books, manuals, DfE guidelines, etc, etc.

But sure as popsicles melt in hell, that's a hugely bigger factor in future bad behaviour?

 

[MontyVeda]

MontyVeda, on 17 September 2011 - 13:41:22, said:

Dell has a very good point here... As an adult, having a heated debate with another adult where neither refuses to back down, then one decides to physically attack the other (an all too common occurrence)... they would be considered an idiot and a thug. But at least they're lashing out at somebody their own size when 'words fail'. Doing the same to ones kids does not make a moral and upstanding parent, just another idiot who thinks that the use of a physical attack somehow solves problems.

Angelfishsolo, on 17 September 2011 - 13:47:31, said:
Are you saying that we should teach our children it is right not to back down?

vernon, on 17 September 2011 - 14:06:55, said:
Stop being obtuse.

I am directly referencing your quote. What is obtuce about that?

Actually you were directly referencing my quote AFS, not Vernon's... I don't know what obtuse means, but I will look it up.

However in reference to "Are you saying that we should teach our children it is right not to back down?"

I'll leave a gap here....





....so you can put the words in my mouth for me

 

[vernon]

What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Year on year we see record numbers of GCSE passes.

I did say 'improved' but what I meant was that young people have become more serious, more responsible, more diligent and harder working. I'm not entirely sure that's all to the good.

can we see a connection?

If I had worked half as hard as my two did in the VIth Form I would have left with 3 A grade A levels in '79 and gone on to a tidy uni rather than bumming out after a few weeks at Portsmouth Poly. My two were doing stuff at GCSE that I only got to in the second year of A levels.

Perhaps the reasons why children pass exams today in increasing numbers is because they are, on average, better educated to pass exams......

 

[Angelfishsolo]

can we see a connection?

If I had worked half as hard as my two did in the VIth Form I would have left with 3 A grade A levels in '79 and gone on to a tidy uni rather than bumming out after a few weeks at Portsmouth Poly. My two were doing stuff at GCSE that I only got to in the second year of A levels.

Perhaps the reasons why children pass exams today in increasing numbers is because they are, on average, better educated to pass exams......

You missed the part where I claimed exams are getting easier.

 

[vernon]

You missed the part where I claimed exams are getting easier.

Based upon what evidence?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Based upon what evidence?

My time working for JCP for one. People coming in with 9,10 gcse's struggling to complete basic application forms. Also seeing my Mums O Level English, History and Art papers. Most of it it is degree grade stuff by todays standards. Even comparing the work my Sister (7 years younger) did in her English GCSE to my exam.

 

[vernon]

My time working for JCP for one. People coming in with 9,10 gcse's struggling to complete basic application forms. Also seeing my Mums O Level English, History and Art papers. Most of it it is degree grade stuff by todays standards. Even comparing the work my Sister (7 years younger) did in her English GCSE to my exam.

An instance of empirical evidence and as such, unreliable.

To test your hypothesis you need to have candidates sitting old and new examinations having been taught the content of both syllabuses to make the test fair. Once you have a decent data set then make a justified claim citing your research finding otherwise your claim is an observation/opinion.

 

[vernon]

An instance of empirical evidence and as such, unreliable.

To test your hypothesis you need to have candidates sitting old and new examinations having been taught the content of both syllabuses to make the test fair. Once you have a decent data set then make a justified claim citing your research finding otherwise your claim is an observation/opinion.

I forgot to mention one thing that will make direct comparison difficult.

O level grades were norm referenced.

GCSE grades are criterion referenced.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

An instance of empirical evidence and as such, unreliable.

To test your hypothesis you need to have candidates sitting old and new examinations having been taught the content of both syllabuses to make the test fair. Once you have a decent data set then make a justified claim citing your research finding otherwise your claim is an observation/opinion.

Lets face it, whatever I say you will disagree with. Maybe you could explain to the employers who complained to the JCP about the falling standards of applicants.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I forgot to mention one thing that will make direct comparison difficult.

O level grades were norm referenced.

GCSE grades are criterion referenced.

I am aware that exams are no longer %age graded.

 

[Crackle]

An instance of empirical evidence and as such, unreliable.

To test your hypothesis you need to have candidates sitting old and new examinations having been taught the content of both syllabuses to make the test fair. Once you have a decent data set then make a justified claim citing your research finding otherwise your claim is an observation/opinion.

Yes, precisely. At the risk of moving away from corporal punishment, they are not comparable. Most of the comparisons I've seen simply shoved GCSE students into an O level exam they hadn't been schooled for. Naturally they didn't do well. Simplistically, O levels tested a depth of knowledge, in some ways learning by rote. GCSE's seem to test understanding much more. O levels were grossly unfair as well. No marks for a wrong answer with the right methodology and a sliding scale which ensured that only so many passed each year. Thankfully we've moved on. When I look at the work my kids do now, I'm impressed and amazed at the breadth, interest and imagination of the material they cover. If I had a criticism and maybe something that could be learned from O level days, it would be the depth they cover and the level of critical analysis.

 

[vernon]

I am aware that exams are no longer %age graded.

That's not the difference between norm and criterion referencing. Marks as percentages don't come into it.

Norm referencing is where grades are allocated according to the normal distribution curve which makes the pass mark literally a moveable feast. It was possible to fail with very high marks if the rest of the candidates did better than you. Equally it was possible to pass with mediocre marks if a lot of fellow candidates did worse than you.

Criterion referencing allocates grades according to the ability of the candidate to demonstrate skills and knowledge matching the grade criteria.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

That's not the difference between norm and criterion referencing. Marks as percentages don't come into it.

Norm referencing is where grades are allocated according to the normal distribution curve which makes the pass mark literally a moveable feast.

Criterion referencing allocates grades according to the ability of the candidate to demonstrate skills and knowledge matching the grade criteria.

If exams were graded from a bell curve the n% will get A grades, n% B grades etc.

 

[vernon]

My time working for JCP for one. People coming in with 9,10 gcse's struggling to complete basic application forms. Also seeing my Mums O Level English, History and Art papers. Most of it it is degree grade stuff by todays standards. Even comparing the work my Sister (7 years younger) did in her English GCSE to my exam.

The better candidates might well have gone elsewhere.....