Coroner: Lorry driver "would not have expected" to encounter cyclist he killed

[Brandane]

allegedly well trained professional driver

www.cyclechat.net/threads
What makes you think he is either "well trained" or "professional"?
He has simply passed a DSA test of competency to drive an HGV, a fairly basic test much like the one applied to car drivers. The learning begins AFTER passing the test, and who knows how much experience the guy had? This does not in any way excuse his lack of observational skills.

 

[oldstrath]

www.cyclechat.net/threads
What makes you think he is either "well trained" or "professional"?
He has simply passed a DSA test of competency to drive an HGV, a fairly basic test much like the one applied to car drivers. The learning begins AFTER passing the test, and who knows how much experience the guy had? This does not in any way excuse his lack of observational skills.

So people with essentially no experience, and possibly little skill, are allowed to drive heavy things, with poor visibility, very quickly? shoot, that really is scary. Still doesn't excuse his killing someone. Hopefully he'll never be allowed near a steering wheel again, but I suppose in fact he'll just get some counselling and carry on being dangerous.

 

[Brandane]

So people with essentially no experience, and possibly little skill, are allowed to drive heavy things, with poor visibility, very quickly?

Yes! My experience was: test passed on Saturday; keys of fully laden artic (with completely different control layout, gearbox etc.) thrown at me on Monday morning and sent out into the big bad world to learn how to drive it by myself. Cacking myself would be a good description; I hadn't even driven a loaded artic before (test has changed now, I think they have to be carrying a load of about 6 tonnes). Then when it came to reversing one of them in enclosed yards or narrow streets , it was a whole lot different to the set up used on the test reverse.
Part of the problem being that haulage companies will only employ drivers with experience (insurance requirement sometimes). The only way to get that experience is by doing agency work. Agencies are only interested in getting bums on seats, they give zero training. So you turn up at whatever company to do a shift, and they are even less interested in giving training; they just want the freight delivered; after all they are paying the agency good money for a driver. All you get is a set of keys and paperwork for the load, and sent on your way. Still want to take your chances on a busy dual carriageway on a bicycle? I know I don't.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

he didn't see because he wasn't looking and all the bs about it being unavoidable because of the vehicles in the outside lane, is just that, post-hoc rationalisation, bs.

 

[blazed]

[QUOTE 4005240, member: 9609"]I have had a bit of a search for the incident on the web and from this report LINK it would appear to have taken place at the following junction.
google streeview
and a little research would show that this section of the A40 is an extremely busy dual carriageway, 33,700 per day (although only 3% HGVs) it would appear to be NSL so cars 70 - 80, lorries at 56. It was dark, heavy rain and strong winds.
Obviously I don't know exactly what happened, but at a guess I would imagine the trucker would have been looking for a place to filter-in, not so easy in an HGV if it is a busy road with evreyone tailgating each other at speed, lorries can't just accelerate and slot in.
I am presuming the cyclist was on the dual carriageway, and not on the slip road having just come off the motorway?
I'm not so sure it would have been a mirror blind spot situation. To be honest, and I'm sure I will be crucified on CC for what I am about to say - but I have great sympathy with the driver for not expecting a cyclist to be there, what a very unusual place to ride a bike. even on a good clear day that is not a road for bikes, and this was at night in the rain!
I'm really sorry the cyclist has been killed, my heart goes out to him, and yes the driver should have seen him and avoided him, but i am thinking the judge may have got this one right.[/QUOTE]

Very true but cyclists love to play the victim. If you combined the chips on cyclechat members shoulders you'd be half way to a happy meal.

 

[Milkfloat]

Very true but cyclists love to play the victim. If you combined the chips on cyclechat members shoulders you'd be half way to a happy meal.

I would agree with you normally, but I this case I cannot. Yes the victim was risking it riding on that particular road, but there is no excuse for him being mowed down. Do you honestly think if it had been a broken down motorist or a slow moving moped that the court outcome would be the same?

 

[Dan B]

Just because you're not expecting to see a cyclist should not be an excuse to legally run them down.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Very true but cyclists love to play the victim. If you combined the chips on cyclechat members shoulders you'd be half way to a happy meal.

Some cyclists are born victims, some achieve victimhood, others have it thrust upon them?

 

[Origamist]

For once I agree with the CTC . The cyclist HAD lights AND reflectors - he WAS on the main road and without doubt he DID have right of way. It WAS the drivers responsibility to see him no if's no but's. Being able to stop in the distance you can SEE to be clear not just THINK is clear or SHOULD be clear [applies to cyclists too] would save a lot of grief.

It's not often that I agree with sidevalve, but this is one such occasion.

Far too many drivers treat slip roads like an exit pit lane - the idea that they might have to slow considerably or even stop is seen as some kind of driving failure (i.e. not being able to slot into a gap).

The explanation that he was not expecting to see a cyclist is not the critical issue here, it is his abject failure to properly assess the road conditions before maneuvering that caused the cyclist's death. The cyclist was there to be seen - and the driver failed in his duty of care.

The coroner seems to have aped what the police sergeant said without interrogating his assumptions or bias.

If you want to comment on the coroners unfortunate choice of language:
Coroners.office@gloucestershire.gov.uk

 

[Smurfy]

This reminds me a little of the ridiculous line you often read that someone was 'in the wrong place at the wrong time'. No! They were in the right place at the right time for what they were lawfully doing, had every right to be there, and were a victim of someone else's carelessness rather than suffering from bad luck.

 

[Aravis]

[QUOTE 4005240, member: 9609"]I'm really sorry the cyclist has been killed, my heart goes out to him, and yes the driver should have seen him and avoided him, but i am thinking the judge may have got this one right.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to join this so late. Reading through, I was glad to find someone prepared to swim against the tide on this one.

I know the road where incident occurred extremely well. As a cyclist I am certainly not scared of traffic, but never in a million years would I ride this road. Apart from anything else, there is a perfectly safe (if any road truly is) alternative which is only marginally longer.

It seems, from comments posted elsewhere, that at one time there was a temporary order prohibiting cycling on this particular 3.1 mile long dual carriageway, and that pressure from local cycling groups was at least partly responsible for this being removed. If this is true I suggest they were misguided. When it come to cyclists' rights there are many things that do need defending, but I seriously question this one.

 

[glenn forger]

Apart from anything else, there is a perfectly safe (if any road truly is) alternative which is only marginally longer.

What's the difference between your route and the one taken by O’Connell to his destination?

 

[Aravis]

What's the difference between your route and the one taken by O’Connell to his destination?

One is a B road and a recognised cycle route. The other is a dead straight high-speed dual carriageway. The B road is about half a mile longer.

 

[glenn forger]

Half a mile longer to which destination?

 

[mickle]

Very true but cyclists love to play the victim. If you combined the chips on cyclechat members shoulders you'd be half way to a happy meal.

fark off.