Coronavirus outbreak

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stowie

Legendary Member
We are in this situation - wife in tears today. MIL phoning in tears most days. We've just been allowed to stand in the car pak from tomorrow - MrsF got the email, so sent it to her sisters, then was gazumped by her sister - SIL goes tomorrow, my missus can't go for at least another week - 1 family person per week. MIL's mental health is in bits. Her body is knackered but she's a tough old boot upstairs. Spending your last years in a prison charging £1000 a week and not allowing you to see your family from behind glass in a building whilst you are outside....

That's what hisses me off about the ' I'll carry on as I please'. We aren't, for the sake of a chance to visit MIL - I've not seen her for 7 months, but keep myself safe, so my wife can go. Oh and the visitors are temperature checked (in the ruddy car park where they stay). The home has been far from perfect as they have had a raft of deaths from Covid.

Really sorry to hear about your situation. I hope it improves in the near future, and that the visiting schedules become less restrictive.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
@SkipdiverJohn, another question!

You slip, hit your head. As a result you have a fit/seizure/episode/call it what you want. You're "normal life" comes to a full stop. If you drive, you've to surrender all licence's. Then, previously, you'd have to wait a year, and be signed off as clear, without any further happening. During that time your job might be at risk, especially if you need to drive for a living.

Not an uncommon situation*, but one that brings your life to a full stop. You'd immediately find yourself placed in the high risk group, meaning under your "rules" you'd have to self isolate to allow everyone not in that group to carry on as normal. Could you manage?

*I worked with someone who used to rib me for riding to work, who now finds himself in that situation. He's lucky in regards work, he's got a lift to work and they've managed to find him another job in the meantime. But he's said it will be 2022 before he finds out if they'll sign him as clear. The reason for the extended delay, the current situation.

Cancer doesn't care about who it gets.
 

tom73

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Now Van Tam is making it clear the current situation is not looking good.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54065793
People have he said "relaxed too much" over the summer and "we have got to start taking this very seriously again".
If not, the UK will have "a bumpy ride over the next few months",
"there is a more general and creeping geographic trend across the UK that disease levels are now beginning to turn up"
"now is the time for us to re-engage, and to realise that this a continuing threat to us,"
He also urged public health officials and politicians to think about how the virus is managed not in the short term, but over the next six months and "until the spring".

Sadly I think it will fall on deaf ears ofter all he's an expert and not the CEO of pret or a back bencher.
 
The infection numbers are unimportant. So long as the number of hospitalisations for severe illness don't exceed the NHS intensive care capacity, then the situation will remain manageable no matter what. The NHS could just about cope with 5-6,000 confirmed tested cases a day in March/April before the extra Nightingale contingency capacity was added. Therefore we should be able to deal with at least 10,000 virus cases a day going forward, on a business as usual basis, with no lockdowns and the resulting economic carnage. Shutting everything down again for several weeks simply isn't an option now. No country can afford it, as India has discovered the hard way and has now reopened - despite astronomical increases in Coronavirus cases. Whatever happens over the next weeks and months the economy will have to be kept open, and the authorities will have to manage any fallout from the virus within that situation.

But your missing the whole point - If you let the virus run rampant the economy won't continue. There will be too many people off sick , or looking after someone off sick, -(A healthy friend of Mine, early 50's - Just back to work after 3 weeks off with Covid) The capacity of the NHS will go down pretty quickly - as the demand rises. Youre saying we coped last winter and should therefore be able to cope this - completely ignoring the lockdown that helped us cope - and that we needn't do this time around. - and completely ignoring we have had 3k cases the last 2 days and aren't even in October !!!

You might be right - we won't go to full lockdown - but theres no way things will continue as they are - everything will just grind to a halt - I think even Boris and his mates know that. The very least we will see is is more stringent local lockdowns. Its purely my belief that they will to a greater or lesser extent restrict/close pubs/restaurants.
 

DCLane

Found in the Yorkshire hills ...
Sadly I think it will fall on deaf ears ofter all he's an expert and not the CEO of pret or a back bencher.

Unfortunately I agree. This evening I've been in Manchester at the velodrome and called into the ASDA there. It was busy and around 5pm. Most people weren't wearing a face covering, no-one challenged them at the entrance, and there was no form of distance between customers. No different to early March.

No amount of rules / restrictions / guidelines / regulations will work if they're not collectively acted upon with enforcement.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
It's illegal to be drunk on licensed premise's. And that includes any outdoor area belong to those premises.

Despite my local watering hole not being the most genteel of venues, you really won't get served if you look obviously pissed, you'll get told no more beer tonight, come back tomorrow when sober. Not just because of the licensing laws, but people who've had way too many can be right a pain in the arse and the staff would rather not have to try to eject them at closing time when they want to stay and carry on drinking.

The capacity of the NHS will go down pretty quickly - as the demand rises. Youre saying we coped last winter and should therefore be able to cope this - completely ignoring the lockdown that helped us cope - and that we needn't do this time around. - and completely ignoring we have had 3k cases the last 2 days and aren't even in October !!!

The true situation in March/April was far worse than the stats make it appear. We were getting c. 5k official cases a day, but hardly anyone was being tested unless hospitalised, so the stats were only the tip of the iceberg. It's widely reckoned now the true infection rate was at least 100k a day, so 20 x the official numbers. Now we have widespread testing of people who are only feeling mildly unwell or not even unwell at all, and we find 3k a day. I bet the multiplier between the real infection rate and the confirmed case rate now is much smaller that six months ago. Say it's x 5, which would mean 15k real cases yet hardly anyone is being hospitalised let alone dying of it. Millions of us routinely catch all sorts of viruses every year, yet we don't shut the country down because of it, we don't send everyone home in a workplace or school because one person went off sick with a bug. I really don't see what all the hysteria is about. It's normal for a certain amount of staff in any workplace to be off sick at any one time. At my work, 4 or 5% is normal but it fluctuates and can sometimes hit 20% at times. If there's high sick levels they try to boost the resources with working more overtime to keep on top of things.

called into the ASDA there. It was busy and around 5pm. Most people weren't wearing a face covering, no-one challenged them at the entrance, and there was no form of distance between customers. No different to early March.

No amount of rules / restrictions / guidelines / regulations will work if they're not collectively acted upon with enforcement.

I'm highly sceptical about the effectiveness of non-medical masks, especially when not worn properly. If anything they seem to encourage people to get closer to each other than they would normally! No-one wearing them in the pub but people mostly being sensible. In the big shops, most people are wearing them but then reaching right over each other only inches apart to get things off the shelf! I reckon it's safer in the pub!
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
Despite my local watering hole not being the most genteel of venues, you really won't get served if you look obviously pissed, you'll get told no more beer tonight, come back tomorrow when sober. Not just because of the licensing laws, but people who've had way too many can be right a pain in the arse and the staff would rather not have to try to eject them at closing time when they want to stay and carry on drinking.
But that's their right, who are you to say that they can't get drunk?

I know bar staff who'd rather people observed the regulations currently in place, however unpopular. It means that they have greater job security. Not likely to have to shut again, and not likely to end up catching something that could see them having to take time off work. Simply because there's some who feel that their rights shouldn't count. They are only serving you after all, and you letting them do that is keeping them in employment.

You don't have to be drinking at the time, to be drunk on licensed premises.


I'm highly sceptical about the effectiveness of non-medical masks, especially when not worn properly. If anything they seem to encourage people to get closer to each other than they would normally! No-one wearing them in the pub but people mostly being sensible. In the big shops, most people are wearing them but then reaching right over each other only inches apart to get things off the shelf! I reckon it's safer in the pub!
You miss the point. Their use isn't to prevent you catching it. It's to stop you spreading it. People following simple hygiene can not be relied on. Covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze.
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
I really don't see what all the hysteria is about.

It's not hysteria, it's a rational appraisal of what will happen if we return to normal, based on epidemiology. That's hundreds of thousands of deaths. The reason you can't see it is because you have pre-judged the conclusion you wish for.

I'm highly sceptical about the effectiveness of non-medical masks

I'm highly sceptical that you have appraised yourself of the evidence either way.
 
Despite my local watering hole not being the most genteel of venues, you really won't get served if you look obviously pissed, you'll get told no more beer tonight, come back tomorrow when sober. Not just because of the licensing laws, but people who've had way too many can be right a pain in the arse and the staff would rather not have to try to eject them at closing time when they want to stay and carry on drinking.



The true situation in March/April was far worse than the stats make it appear. We were getting c. 5k official cases a day, but hardly anyone was being tested unless hospitalised, so the stats were only the tip of the iceberg. It's widely reckoned now the true infection rate was at least 100k a day, so 20 x the official numbers. Now we have widespread testing of people who are only feeling mildly unwell or not even unwell at all, and we find 3k a day. I bet the multiplier between the real infection rate and the confirmed case rate now is much smaller that six months ago. Say it's x 5, which would mean 15k real cases yet hardly anyone is being hospitalised let alone dying of it. Millions of us routinely catch all sorts of viruses every year, yet we don't shut the country down because of it, we don't send everyone home in a workplace or school because one person went off sick with a bug. I really don't see what all the hysteria is about. It's normal for a certain amount of staff in any workplace to be off sick at any one time. At my work, 4 or 5% is normal but it fluctuates and can sometimes hit 20% at times. If there's high sick levels they try to boost the resources with working more overtime to keep on top of things.



I'm highly sceptical about the effectiveness of non-medical masks, especially when not worn properly. If anything they seem to encourage people to get closer to each other than they would normally! No-one wearing them in the pub but people mostly being sensible. In the big shops, most people are wearing them but then reaching right over each other only inches apart to get things off the shelf! I reckon it's safer in the pub!

I agree with you about number then and now - but:-

There was a point last year where the uk had zero covid cases. There was also a point somewhere perhaps between November and January where the UK had 1 covid case. From that point in April we got to a stage where 900 people a day were dying. Even with a full lockdown in place.

Now the last 2 days we have clocked up 6,000 cases - We are starting the surge from a much higher base than last year. This virus has trumped all worse case scenarios - So without some form of action who knows where will be in December.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Unfortunately I agree. This evening I've been in Manchester at the velodrome and called into the ASDA there. It was busy and around 5pm. Most people weren't wearing a face covering, no-one challenged them at the entrance, and there was no form of distance between customers. No different to early March.

This is why these areas are high. Stockport - 99% are wearing masks in supermarkets and shops, that's less than 5 miles from the Velodrome. I have colleagues that live near Oldham and tell me no-one is following the rules there - that again is first hand. I'm lucky we seem to be behaving in my area, which shows why infection is the lowest and below national averages. That, of course, will change as we've had 15 schools in Manchester send student groups/bubbles home to isolate just yesterday.
 

tom73

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Housing minister on rising numbers.
"we all have to be very cautious"
Mr Jenrick told BBC Breakfast: "The virus is still very much with us, it's still concerning."He said if people followed the government's guidance "we should be able to continue to control the virus but we're going to have to be especially cautious as we go into the autumn and winter".
Mr Jenrick added there was a particular responsibility on younger people to follow government guidelines on Covid-19, so that infection rates would not spike again.
"There's a responsibility on younger people to not just stay at home, obviously to go out and go to work and to enjoy pubs and restaurants, but to do so in accordance with the guidelines."

So you've a responsibility not to kill your granny , stay in , go to work , call in the pub on the way home then a quick meal out.
Glad that's cleared that up.
 
Housing minister on rising numbers.
"we all have to be very cautious"
Mr Jenrick told BBC Breakfast: "The virus is still very much with us, it's still concerning."He said if people followed the government's guidance "we should be able to continue to control the virus but we're going to have to be especially cautious as we go into the autumn and winter".
Mr Jenrick added there was a particular responsibility on younger people to follow government guidelines on Covid-19, so that infection rates would not spike again.
"There's a responsibility on younger people to not just stay at home, obviously to go out and go to work and to enjoy pubs and restaurants, but to do so in accordance with the guidelines."

So you've a responsibility not to kill your granny , stay in , go to work , call in the pub on the way home then a quick meal out.
Glad that's cleared that up.

And the numbers are rising because they aren't doing that. .....lets hope they start now ...a new catchphrase should do the trick.

I would also say the responsibility is on the pubs and restaurants more than young people.
 
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