Coronavirus outbreak

[MarkF]

Does that mean the elderly won't be on ventilators if not going to ICU ? Sounds worrying. It does show you that A&E is full of time wasters mainly. Boils my wee wee.

I don't they'd be going to ICU anyway, they are "end of life", alive but won't live again. It'd be different for a healthy elderly person, for the time being at least...

Yes, the A&E waiting room is still providing entertainment for staff who travel from all over the hospital to gawp at it! We've had more receptionists that "waiters" for a week.

 

[vickster]

Can someone clarify something for me please.
As I understand it now I can walk from my house for exercise.
But.....I cannot drive to the park for exercise.
I thought I had read that driving to a park was allowed but I can't find anything to say that now so have I imagined that or have the rules just been tightened?

It was mentioned on a BBC Q&A yesterday (BBC Home Affairs correspondent IIRC)

One of my colleagues just said that a friend of his was told to go home by the police when going for a walk by Finsbury Park despite citing the communicated 'rules' - might be they are getting stricter in London (or was an overenthusiastic copper)

 

[mjr]

Some people by me are having double glazing installed FFS !!!!!!!

It depends what was wrong with the previous glazing. We've no idea how long this lockdown will last. I'm leaving a blown unit until after this shoot, but I would probably still get a cracked one replaced ASAP because I estimate that would be more harmful than the risk of c19 spread with everyone disinfecting everything.

In short: don't judge stuff unless you know all the details. Look after yourself.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Imho it is shameful for Prof Gupta to venture such rubbish, without proper justification, on such a subject, at a time like this.

This may come as a shock to you but newspapers are not always reliable sources of information.

This may come as a shock to you, given your "smart" comment, that I actually read the paper lead authored by said Prof Gupta. The newspapers did not misrepresent her conclusion.

What is shocking, is that somehow you failed to notice the issue I raised is not whether newspapers publish gospel or garbage, but the propriety of her, as a senior academic, talking to a newspaper (the ft) when her results bear no correlation to what is measured in the real world on such a subject at such a time.

You might ask if it matters. Actually it does - because unlike some random character who makes "smart" comments on the internet, she couldn't possibly be as naive as not to know that when widely reported, which the story inevitably has been, her false "conclusion", which indicates Italy and UK "have accumulated significant levels of herd immunity" as stated in her paper, has the real potential to encourage complacency, and hence endangering lives due entirely to her "science".

 

[flake99please]

"Two supermarket delivery vans were torched less than an hour after Prime Minister Boris Johnson issued his lockdown order".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-52019720

Just my opinion.... Anyone found to be responsible for acts like this/slashing ambulance tyres etc and/or spitting at police/fire/paramedics should have their (and their immediate family) right to any medical assistance revoked during this pandemic.

Let the scum rot.

 

[DCLane]

Can someone clarify something for me please.
As I understand it now I can walk from my house for exercise.
But.....I cannot drive to the park for exercise.
I thought I had read that driving to a park was allowed but I can't find anything to say that now so have I imagined that or have the rules just been tightened?

You can drive to somewhere, but if it's busy find somewhere quiet.

 

[marinyork]

Some visuals for those visually orientated. This is the UK as iankruk and others posted

Someone on wikipedia finally updated the Italy stuff yesterday (I could do this if I could be bothered).

The top figure in Italy (second figure) is the cases per million. The darkest colour (they have shown slightly bodged cutoffs) is roughly 3000 per million population, or in UK terms 300 per 100,000 population. The top graph shows that London is on 30 per 100,000 so about ten times lower than the darkest bits of the second graph (in Italy). It also shows that many areas of the UK excluding London and Wales are the two mid pinky colours i.e. much of the north of Italy outside of the really bad areas. Italian tv (I'm not saying this is right) would look at this and say numbers treble every three days, so London is 6 days behind us, UK is six days behind us (for other areas where it's spread less).

Massive caveats, just confirmed cases, testing regimes different. The virus is believed to have infected much of the north of Italy first etc. Caveat the UK data is one day older I think.

The bottom figure the darkest colour is a province with more than 1000 cases.

 

[kingrollo]

It depends what was wrong with the previous glazing. We've no idea how long this lockdown will last. I'm leaving a blown unit until after this shoot, but I would probably still get a cracked one replaced ASAP because I estimate that would be more harmful than the risk of c19 spread with everyone disinfecting everything.

In short: don't judge stuff unless you know all the details. Look after yourself.

True - but in 99% of cases installing double glazing isn't going to be essential.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

We're not getting the details required for Madrid or London. Some commentary seems to suggest that in Madrid social distancing as an umbrella term came in later than other places. I've no idea whether that's the case or not. Some of the stuff Boris and Witty has said (with the former you wonder whether it's a slip of the tongue) suggests that London won't get as bad as Madrid.

When I've heard people on my city talking about the worries in the UK, housing density, multi-generational families and mixing is what they've voiced as worries. These are bits of information not provided about bits of London. I essentially don't know, but suspect it's probably very applicable to if you get clusters there. Madrid there's definitely an element of it going around nursing and retirement homes like wildfire. The UK (probably not London) has a very narrow window of opportunity to stop this here with antibody testing.

Given the government can only muster c6,500 PCR tests per day (as of yesterday), what hope do we have of getting volume antibody testing anytime soon?

The chart below shows London perhaps will not turn out as badly as Madrid.

On the other hand New York, with a population similar to London, is a shocker.

 

[G3CWI]

the issue I raised

Fortunately I don't take much notice of the newspapers or random people on the internet when seeking accurate information. But thanks for your efforts which I am sure are well meaning.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I think it may have been on ”More Or Less” at 9.00 rather than Today.

It was. Probably available on iplayer now and worth a listen.

 

[Cuchilo]

True - but in 99% of cases installing double glazing isn't going to be essential.

It could be essential for the people doing the fitting as they may need the money to live on . Not everything is black and white .

 

[Tenkaykev]

It's not hair-splitting or point-scoring - it's what happened. When faced with the choice between the legal duty to deliver profit to shareholders and the moral duty to follow an instruction from Boris with no legal force, some directors arguably chose the legal duty. We can argue about whether Tim Martin had other motivations too, but I think no-one can touch him for his dangerously foolish (I agree with Piers Morgan for once!) outbursts because of the above difference.

It's similar to the requests to other businesses to close. Requests don't allow even the few that have business continuity insurance to claim and so it basically forces some to remain open. People were pointing this out all week.

The government should have stated that licensed premises should close immediately on pain of being ordered completely closed (no takeaways/deliveries) as instances of public disorder (an existing power under the Licensing Act) and they would be instructing licensing authorities to take a very dim view come renewal - and that last bit would have increased the expected financial cost of disobedience to bring the legal duty into line with the moral one. Ideally, this order would have gone out before the weekend's produce had been delivered, not just as they got busy on Friday evening.

Arguably other premises could have been closed as "disorderly houses" as reportedly happened in Scotland, but I'm less familiar with that law, having worked in a public house but not a disorderly house

That's a false dilemma. There were actions possible between Boris's pathetic requests and his lockdown - besides, are the current closures of non-essential businesses being enforced that way? No, it seems such numbers of paramilitary police isn't required to close things.


Pubs and licensed cafes and restaurants closed about 30h sooner, less close-proximity mixing on the sunny Saturday, less transmission, fewer hospitalisations, fewer deaths?


Boris's requests with no legal effect were as pathetic as the "would you mind awfully...?" ones of posh Sgt Wilson from Dad's Army. I'm surprised anyone doesn't know that character.

Reading your post and wondering about the legal duty to deliver profit that you mentioned.
I'm aware that the USA tends to have more "predatory" business practices but wondered if things were similar on this side of the pond.

A quick Google led me to this interesting article:

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog...egal-duty-to-maximise-profit-or-to-avoid-tax/

 

[marinyork]

Given the government can only muster c6,500 PCR tests per day (as of yesterday), what hope do we have of getting volume antibody testing anytime soon?

The chart below shows London perhaps will not turn out as badly as Madrid.

On the other hand New York, with a population similar to London, is a shocker.

This is my problem, that the old graph doesn't include regions. New York is very worrying indeed as hinted. It may turn out to be the worst place on earth. It is a very different place to the industrial belt of Italy and random obscure northern towns that aren't that big or densely populated there where the epicentre in Italy and quickly spread next door to more densely packed (nothing on New York).

In terms of the United Kingdom in antibody test is my understanding is we make them here and have been shipping them around the world. Spain doesn't make them apparently and has had to beg, borrow, and whatever else to get 640,000 tests (they physically have them and have been distributed already) from multiple sources from multiple countries (including the UK). As said in the other post the UK's rather bizarre apparently official position is we will be at 25,000 PCR tests by four week's time! As of this morning. I don't particularly have faith in the UK government to get in the antibody tests, but even if they only get in 100,000 tests by the end of the week (ordered before the announcement apparently with no timescales given) that is a massive improvement on crappy 6000. PCRs. Yes, they aren't the same test there are pluses and minuses for both systems. I don't really have any faith in PCR any more as Italy has hit a brick wall in testing and doesn't seem to be able to get above 17,000-25,000 whatever happens. Great achievement by the chinese rolling it out very quickly, it has it's place, antibody testing seems to me to be the only way to get out of this testing quagmire. Unless these qPCR mobile kits get rolled out.

 

[kingrollo]

It could be essential for the people doing the fitting as they may need the money to live on . Not everything is black and white .

I'm sure that's the reason it's being done.

But at the end of the day they aren't key workers - so are going against what BJ said the other night.