Coronavirus outbreak

[Edwardoka]

You're right, it's unfair to compare NZ to the UK, since the UK is a fairly densely populated island nation on the edge of a developed and similarly densely populated continent.

Hmm, weird, it says here that Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea all exist. Curious. Must be a typo, surely.

 

[PK99]

You're right, it's unfair to compare NZ to the UK, since the UK is a fairly densely populated island nation on the edge of a developed and similarly densely populated continent.

Hmm, weird, it says here that Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea all exist. Curious. Must be a typo, surely.

Does it also say they are authoritarian, surveillance states where rule is by decree and dictat and opposition not welcome?

 

[matticus]

You're right, it's unfair to compare NZ to the UK, since the UK is a fairly densely populated island nation on the edge of a developed and similarly densely populated continent.

Hmm, weird, it says here that Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea all exist. Curious. Must be a typo, surely.

They are spelled very different to NZ, so yeah, I think they are different countries.

 

[Edwardoka]

Does it also say they are authoritarian, surveillance states where rule is by decree and dictat and opposition not welcome?

I dunno, are we still talking about the UK?

 

[matticus]

I dunno, are we still talking about the UK?

Is this still the COVID thread? Or are we back to general slagging off UK Gov? Nothing wrong with the latter, but there are plenty of other threads for it, where you can also point out all the superior governments you want!

 

[Edwardoka]

Is this still the COVID thread? Or are we back to general slagging off UK Gov? Nothing wrong with the latter, but there are plenty of other threads for it, where you can also point out all the superior governments you want!

The subthread I jumped into is about comparing covid performance of nations of similar geographical context, population density and size, and how you can't compare NZ to the UK, but as soon as I mention other nations of similar geographical context, population density, and size- woah what's that over there?

We are the worst performing island nation in the world by any given metric, and it isn't even close. Our next nearest competitor is Indonesia, a developing country with a population 4 times that of the UK.

 

[matticus]

The subthread I jumped into is about comparing covid performance of nations of similar geographical context

What, you mean like New Zealand?!?

Seems like a sub-thread to bang-on about how much better other nations are; when the flaws in comparison are pointed out, we get
"Well OK ... but whatabout ... "
Transparent. To say the least.

 

[matticus]

I just don't care about these comparisons - let's look at what we can/did do right/wrong. Stuff the foreigners!!!

 

[Edwardoka]

What, you mean like New Zealand?!?

Seems like a sub-thread to bang-on about how much better other nations are; when the flaws in comparison are pointed out, we get
"Well OK ... but whatabout ... "
Transparent. To say the least.

I just don't care about these comparisons - let's look at what we can/did do right/wrong. Stuff the foreigners!!!

Comparison is not only useful but necessary in all walks of life. If you don't have a metric against which you can measure performance, you have no way to make claims about the effectiveness of any given measures.

Re-inventing the wheel is usually counterproductive and redundant in most walks of life, when it's a public health emergency it's downright scandalous.

It is sometimes necessary to think outside of the box to address new problems, but the UK government's approach since it became clear that covid was on its way has consistently been to alternate between being out of its box and sticking its head in the sand.

The only thing the government has gotten right is the vaccination drive, and all that hard work will be for naught if a vaccine-resistant strain arises here because we're leaping two-footedly back into it while almost half the population hasn't been fully vaccinated.

 

[mjr]

Does it also say they are authoritarian, surveillance states where rule is by decree and dictat and opposition not welcome?

Is South Korea an authoritarian surveillance state? A country which ranks higher than the UK on the Press Freedom Index and in the same category ("full democracy") on the Democracy Index?

 

[matticus]

Comparison is not only useful but necessary in all walks of life. If you don't have a metric against which you can measure performance, you have no way to make claims about the effectiveness of any given measures.

It's not a race. We're not competing for citizens' business. I don't see how yard-sticks are particularly useful in public health.

" necessary in all walks of life " I don't think so. You must have a stressful existence, always comparing yourself, or your family ...

 

[Edwardoka]

It's not a race. We're not competing for citizens' business. I don't see how yard-sticks are particularly useful in public health.

" necessary in all walks of life " I don't think so. You must have a stressful existence, always comparing yourself, or your family ...

I didn't say that you need to compare yourself against other people. If I were to do that I'd probably just jump out the window.

Epidemiology is about statistics and probabilities at a population level, and it's almost entirely driven by data.
When you're involved in anything like that, you need to be gathering as much data as possible. And if you want to take measures to improve the situation, you need to have a baseline against which you can compare, otherwise how do you know how effective your measures are, or even what improvement looks like?

We can tell that the vaccine is having an effect on slowing the conversion of infections to hospital cases because we have two previous waves to compare against. There's also 190-odd other countries that are collecting this data and generally publishing the measures that they are taking.

Pretending that we're somehow different and that the data from other countries doesn't apply to us is full-blown exceptionalism.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I didn't say that you need to compare yourself against other people. If I were to do that I'd probably just jump out the window.

Epidemiology is about statistics and probabilities at a population level, and it's almost entirely driven by data.
When you're involved in anything like that, you need to be gathering as much data as possible. And if you want to take measures to improve the situation, you need to have a baseline against which you can compare, otherwise how do you know how effective your measures are, or even what improvement looks like?

We can tell that the vaccine is having an effect on slowing the conversion of infections to hospital cases because we have two previous waves to compare against. There's also 190-odd other countries that are collecting this data and generally publishing the measures that they are taking.

Pretending that we're somehow different and that the data from other countries doesn't apply to us is full-blown exceptionalism.

The problem with comparing Nation State to Nation State is that each is uniquely composited by very wide set of variables and thus any comparism is rendered void, imo.

 

[mjr]

Pretending that we're somehow different and that the data from other countries doesn't apply to us is full-blown exceptionalism.

We can learn from their mistakes. Such as the Netherlands, where they released all restrictions before all willing adults had been fully vaccinated and then suffered a surge in cases, setting new records, ending with PM Rutte apologising for going too far too fast as he reintroduced restrictions, on the same day Boris announced England's surrender.

Now, why do people expect the UK to be much different?

 

[newfhouse]

The problem with comparing Nation State to Nation State is that each is uniquely composited by very wide set of variables and thus any comparism is rendered void, imo.

Surely no island is an island?