Congestion

[Jotheboat]

Not even that far back. The 1984 Astra was 1.6m wide. Now it's almost 1.9m. That's about another foot of road width hogged, even ignoring the increasing market share of wide SUVs.

and people, mainly younger end, don't seem to have decent spatial awareness.

 

[Drago]

and people, mainly younger end, don't seem to have decent spatial awareness.

I was reading something about this in  playboy New Scientist recently. Some of this is reckoned to be because kids are playing less in the way of physical games, not throwing or catching a ball so much, and playing less with toys such as lego, mecanno, etc, so simply aren't developing the spatial awareness of the former generations.

In the past males had less car parks dings due to better spatial awareness these activities traditionally begat them, and females less crashes on the open road as they tend to be less aggressive and have faster reactions. That is changing and the low speed dings are approaching parity betwixt the sexes and the males are losing the spatial awareness advantage their forebears had enjoyed.

 

[Jotheboat]

I was reading something about this in  playboy New Scientist recently. Some of this is reckoned to be because kids are playing less in the way of physical games, not throwing or catching a ball so much, and playing less with toys such as lego, mecanno, etc, so simply aren't developing the spatial awareness of the former generations.

In the past males had less car parks dings due to better spatial awareness these activities traditionally begat them, and females less crashes on the open road as they tend to be less aggressive and have faster reactions. That is changing and the low speed dings are approaching parity betwixt the sexes and the males are losing the spatial awareness advantage their forebears had enjoyed.

You mean Nude Scientist?

Interesting about the 'playing out' less. I can see that.
I think I am a less good driver than 20 years ago. More cautious, but not as confident. I'm also VERY aware of cyclists, being one.

 

[simongt]

I was reading something about this in  playboy New Scientist recently. Some of this is reckoned to be because kids are playing less in the way of physical games, not throwing or catching a ball so much, and playing less with toys such as lego, mecanno, etc, so simply aren't developing the spatial awareness of the former generations.

The theory behind this does make sense, even in such a short timespan.
Use it or lose it.

 

[presta]

I don't see that as an either/or. There are many parts of the solution and we can do all of them

Once you get motorists off the road the need for the cycle paths all but disappears. Spending money on cycle paths is costly and too often impractical anyway, taxing motorists is quick and easy, and raises revenue. Building cycle paths presumes that people would rather cycle than walk/bus/train instead of leaving them to make their own choice.

True, but most folk think that it's quicker by car, even allowing for the time taken finding a parking space.
My neighbour is a typical example; local Co-op less than half a kilometre away, but he wouldn't dream of walking, even for the most insignificant purchase.

So a cycle path won't help him then, it'll take a lever to prize him out of the car.

People would rather sit in traffic jams in theirs cars

When I learnt to drive I loved being in my car so much I didn't care whether I was sitting in a traffic jam.

a lot of organising and quite frankly a faff to cycle to work

That's the reason I walk to Tesco rather than cycle. Cycling is just too much faff if it's not for a long leisure ride.

 

[mjr]

Once you get motorists off the road the need for the cycle paths all but disappears. Spending money on cycle paths is costly and too often impractical anyway, taxing motorists is quick and easy, and raises revenue.

...and doesn't get many of them off the road. It also fills the press with the sound of their snowflakery whining about having to finally pay something closer to the cost to society of motoring. It also allows the rich to keep motoring, even faster and more dangerous, with fewer pleb cars in their way.

Building cycle paths presumes that people would rather cycle than walk/bus/train instead of leaving them to make their own choice.

No, it just levels the playing field a bit, reduces the unnecessary faff and unpleasantness of having Mr Toad getting irate looking at our well-honed bottoms, makes it a free choice. As long as we also have footways, busways and railways, the choice remains. The only way we need to stop spending so much on is motorways (including their cycling-budget-stealing cousin, the quasimotorway or, officially, expressway).

When I learnt to drive I loved being in my car so much I didn't care whether I was sitting in a traffic jam.

What was wrong with you? Anyway, that very much doesn't seem to be the case for most of the people in the jams I ride past. Many of them look miserable as sin.

That's the reason I walk to Tesco rather than cycle. Cycling is just too much faff if it's not for a long leisure ride.

That's a sign the highways aren't built well enough for cycling there yet.

 

[simongt]

That's the reason I walk to Tesco rather than cycle. Cycling is just too much faff if it's not for a long leisure ride.

Interesting point. As cycling is our first choice for pretty much any local journey, the various 'minor obstacles'; traffic, lights, locking the bike up doesn't really get considered in the equation - !

 

[icowden]

True, but most folk think that it's quicker by car, even allowing for the time taken finding a parking space.

Unless you are somewhere quite urban it usually is.
As an example, I live 1km from the Co-op, 3.3km from a medium sized Tesco and 2.5 km from an M&S food and a Sainsbury.

The co-op is a 10 minute walk, a 3 minute cycle or a 2 minute drive. If I need to nip there to get something I can walk with a bag - 20 minutes, I can go on the bike with a backpack 6 mins or drive for 4 mins. If I cycle we have to add 10 minutes as I have to get the bike out of the shed, find the lock, grab my rucksack, lock the shed, lock the bike up at the coop, unlock the bike, cross the road etc. If I drive, the only variable is how long I have to wait for a parking space which is between 0 mins and 5 mins but usually <3mins.

Plus, if the co-op doesn't have whatever item my family have deemed essential to dinner you need to get it now or the children will starve I have the further option of driving on to Nisa* (a further half km, but also 0.5km closer to returning home via a circular route) or M&S / Sainsbury. Nisa is usually the best bet as I can complete the circle to get back home and not add that much more time on to the journey.

So it *is* quicker by car, and warmer, and drier. So yes, it's the quick, lazy option.

*not suitable for bike access as nothing nailed down to lock the bike to

 

[mjr]

If I cycle we have to add 10 minutes as I have to get the bike out of the shed, find the lock, grab my rucksack, lock the shed, lock the bike up at the coop, unlock the bike, cross the road etc.

Dealing with the simple things: keep the locks in a bag on the bike (maybe a pannier big enough to carry most shopping, with a fold-up rucksack in it for the rest) and make the shed as easy as possible to lock/unlock and get the bike in/out of.

More complicated: cross the road? What stupid co-op still doesn't have bike parking by its door? What idiot council allows it? Presumably the same one that allows a Nisa with no cycle parking.

So it *is* quicker by car, and warmer, and drier. So yes, it's the quick, lazy option.

It sounds like mainly it's quicker because your council has decided to make car use the best option, with a minor contribution of you making cycling more difficult than it needs be by not keeping locks and bags on the bike.

Warmer? Only once the heater is going, plus pedalling should keep you warm on the bike. Drier? Only either way if you wear waterproofs.

 

[Drago]

Interesting point. As cycling is our first choice for pretty much any local journey, the various 'minor obstacles'; traffic, lights, locking the bike up doesn't really get considered in the equation - !

Same here. Now I'm living on the edge of town I'm even finding it quicker than driving.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If I cycle we have to add 10 minutes as I have to get the bike out of the shed, find the lock, grab my rucksack, lock the shed, lock the bike up at the coop, unlock the bike, cross the road etc. If I drive, the only variable is how long I have to wait for a parking space which is between 0 mins and 5 mins but usually <3mins.

Likely a case of overestimating how long it takes to get your bike out, and how long it takes to park, turn car round etc. Ten mins getting bike out, does that include eating a portion of chips? The thought of driving only a km to a shop should be considered something of last resort.

 

[icowden]

Likely a case of overestimating how long it takes to get your bike out, and how long it takes to park, turn car round etc. Ten mins getting bike out, does that include eating a portion of chips?

No -it includes exactly what I said it did. Finding / getting my rucksack from the back room, getting the lock key, going to the bike shed, lifting it off the rack, grabbing the lock, locking the bike shed (as a minimum). It'll probably be dark so unless I have the lights both on the bike and charged that's another bit of faff. Oh - grabbing a coat and putting that on as well. Then, when I get back, all of that in reverse.

On the other hand, my car is on my driveway pointing out. It requires me to open the door. Sit down, belt up and push a button - then I'm off. Takes about 15 seconds. Parking is the variable, but the co-op is on a slip road so no turning around needed. No coat needed. Reversing into the driveway is trivial.

 

[lazybloke]

Cycling a km (and back) should also be considered trivial.

To be fair you did admit the car was the lazy option.

 

[mjr]

No -it includes exactly what I said it did. Finding / getting my rucksack from the back room, getting the lock key, going to the bike shed, lifting it off the rack, grabbing the lock, locking the bike shed (as a minimum). It'll probably be dark so unless I have the lights both on the bike and charged that's another bit of faff. Oh - grabbing a coat and putting that on as well. Then, when I get back, all of that in reverse.

On the other hand, my car is on my driveway pointing out. It requires me to open the door. Sit down, belt up and push a button - then I'm off. Takes about 15 seconds. Parking is the variable, but the co-op is on a slip road so no turning around needed. No coat needed. Reversing into the driveway is trivial.

No coat needed! That's what my late father thought, until the night he broke down on an expressway in the peeing rain and had to either try to fix it on the shoulder with only a dim torch (it was the 1980s) or walk to a phone.

You think driving is easier partly because you've made driving extra easy and cycling unnecessarily cumbersome. If you won't put the rucksack in a more accessible place, store the bike more slickly and bolt on some real lights that don't need charging, why not level things up by putting your car keys in the loft, parking the car sideways on the drive and unplugging the headlight bulbs?

 

[Electric_Andy]

I don't count it as lazy; if you save time and effort by driving then you have more time and effort to do other non-lazy things like housework