Cities Fit for Cycling - The Times

[GrasB]

Filtering is fine, filtering right to the front is idiotic as you put your self in the firing line for all the impatient twits to have a good go at running you over when the lights turn green. From 2 or 3 cars back I can't remember the last time I ended up having to get out the way of someone trying to beat the car behind me across the junction however I regularly see cyclists & motorists having to take evasive action at the front of the queue for this reason. Trying to justify breaking the law by using the fact you take up poor road position at a junction is futile.

 

[Mad at urage]

Nope, when I was riding that road, waiting 2 or 3 cars back from the lights was not a safer option. Drivers would deliberately drive at cyclists doing that. The only times I've ever been hit at a traffic-light junction were when I was stopped in a queue or when I was stopped at the stop line. Going ahead of the stop line was simply the safe place to be.

 

[GrasB]

Nope, when I was riding that road, waiting 2 or 3 cars back from the lights was not a safer option. Drivers would deliberately drive at cyclists doing that. The only times I've ever been hit at a traffic-light junction were when I was stopped in a queue or when I was stopped at the stop line. Going ahead of the stop line was simply the safe place to be.

Sorry but reading this you sounds exactly like a person who needs to stop cycling until they get a clue about road positioning.

 

[Mad at urage]

Sorry but reading your reply, you sound like exactly the sort of person who thinks they know it all

 

[BentMikey]

Nope, when I was riding that road, waiting 2 or 3 cars back from the lights was not a safer option. Drivers would deliberately drive at cyclists doing that. The only times I've ever been hit at a traffic-light junction were when I was stopped in a queue or when I was stopped at the stop line. Going ahead of the stop line was simply the safe place to be.

I don't see ASLs as a safety measure at all, and it doesn't help us even slightly.

Your experience as quoted above is at odds with the vast majority of other cyclists, and a range of experts on good cycling practices. Taking the lane several cars back is most definitely safer than being out in front. Please don't try to justify poor riding technique on a safety basis, when the reality is it has only a selfish impatient basis.

 

[Mad at urage]

Deliberately?

Yes. I've had motorists tell me they are going to run me off the road and attempt to do just that. I have been attacked with screwdrivers, metal rods (car slewed in front of me, four jumped out, all armed - I didn't stop and made an illegal manoeuvre to escape ) and golf clubs. Forty years of cycling, mostly in London, mostly long before the upsurge in cycling improved or safety has been eventful at times. I've had drivers pass so close they caught my pedals in their wheel arch; I've had the front wheel skewer pulled out by an overtaking car; I was riding in primary long before there was even a name for it, because that gave me room to move away when necessary. I've learned how to lean into a car that insists on side-swiping me, such that I stay upright and simply gouge his door with my handlebars. Of course this is unpopular with the modern gentle cyclist types who predominate on boards such as this and I'm glad that most cyclists no longer have to learn how to cope with this (most of the time).

 

[Mad at urage]

I don't see ASLs as a safety measure at all, and it doesn't help us even slightly.

Your experience as quoted above is at odds with the vast majority of other cyclists, and a range of experts on good cycling practices. Taking the lane several cars back is most definitely safer than being out in front. Please don't try to justify poor riding technique on a safety basis, when the reality is it has only a selfish impatient basis.

Ever had drivers try to physically push you off the road BM? It happened quite a bit back in the 70s/80s. Walton Bridge was a favourite place for them to try it too.

Edit to add: Your replies have exactly the same tone as people used to use, to tell us we should cycle in the gutter. "Stay several cars back" / "Stay in the gutter". Experience taught me they were wrong. Good riding position (which has since become accepted and is now 'official best practice') was simply what kept us alive. Moving through and away from the traffic is simply what kept us away from their wheels (and kept our wheel axles away from their wheel arches).

 

[dellzeqq]

I don't mind ASLs if you cam 'make them stick' by which I mean if you can get to the front, and get in a pretty central position in your lane (and not against the railings). I think the problem arises when people make for the ASL and the traffic starts moving when the light turns green - the bikes on the right have to accelerate like s*** off a shovel to get in to the lane, or even to get from the right hand side of two lanes in to the left hand lane, the bikes between two lanes of cars have to go left with a big signal, and the bikes on the left hand side stand a chance of being left hooked.

So, in a general way, BM's advice is good - if you are not darn sure you can get to the front, then wait however many cars back.

My personal beef with ASLs is that they encourage Islington cyclists wearing Converse 'sneakers' and cardigans to go to the front and wobble about on their lamentable steel framed 'fixies' in front of me (hoping to jump the light), so that they slow me down when I take off. I subject these untermenschen to my famous close pass, which involves brushing past them at 40kph and then immediately cutting them up. I award myself extra points for a well-aimed gob.

 

[dellzeqq]

absolutely - but which one of us has not been caught?

 

[summerdays]

I like ASL's and do think they benefit the sensible cyclist, so one that watches the lights as they are filtering forward and is constantly assessing where they could rejoin the traffic if necessary (I've never had a problem being let back into the traffic if I have miss timed it). Once at the ASL I'm going to be faster over the junction than most motorists would be (as long as it isn't uphill) when the lights change. I do get annoyed at cyclists who then stop in the gutter or stop on the left hand side of the box if they are turning right.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

absolutely - but which one of us has not been caught?

Indeed. It reminds me of a FNRttC when I got caught in a canyon made of two accelerating London Buses. I did honestly think it was going to end badly. We all make errors of judgement.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Mad@urage; no consolation I know but in the main I find London drivers much more chilled these days, on my occasional forays on the mean streets than I ever did as a regular cycle commuter '99 - '05.

Deliberate acts of retaliation for slights, perceived or real, were, in those days, rather too common, but maybe it was just a Stockwell, Brixton, Clapham, and all points to Croydon thing.

 

[Mad at urage]

Greg, I understand it has calmed down, what with the increased numbers of cyclists etc. & I'm very glad of that. Last time I cycled regularly in London was back in '02 - that was when I was riding around Barking; Even then it was considerably easier than twenty - thirty years previously. Yes, Wandsworth, from Putney to Brixton and points east was a mad place, very aggressive and challenging. Still, at 12 years old I was cycling around Hyde Park corner, on the junction rather than in the park - so nothing much on the roads fazes me now!

 

[dellzeqq]

thinking about this, and allowing for the rather odd mix of understandable grief and circulation hunting that brought cycling to the front page of the Times, it is an odd campaign. It's kind of a shopping list devoid of any rationale, or theme or analysis. 'Sort the big junctions' and then 'ride on paths'. It smacks of something home-made, and very temporary.

Thus far, despite a thunderclap of publicity, it's only got 17,000 sign-ups. That I find really surprising, given the readership, given the pumping from the CTC.

 

[Richard Mann]

Yes it is odd. Nobody is ever going to build a consensus for action out of "cyclists" (especially since there's such a diversity of opinion).

But the only way the dafter ideas get eliminated is by talking about them (and trying some).