Chris Boardman - Manchester

[Drago]

Why is that? It's the cycling equivalent of Gerald Ratner, who wants us to sample his wares bit wouldn't touch it himself.

 

[growingvegetables]

Why is that? It's the cycling equivalent of Gerald Ratner, who wants us to sample his wares bit wouldn't touch it himself.

Nope.

 

[al3xsh]

Cringed through the interview in the Guardian.

"Chris Boardman... is avoiding riding on Britain’s roads because he feels they have become too dangerous. 'The roads are statistically safe, but it doesn’t look it and it doesn’t feel it.'"

"I’m looking at parked cars, seeing which way wheels are turning, everything that’s going on around me. It’s just exhausting." - really?

A couple of times I week I commute in to Sheffield. The first part is nice and relaxing (even though it is up hill) because the roads are reasonably quiet. The second part through Sheffield in traffic is horrible. I'd love for there to be better cycling infrastructure - preferably completely separated from the car traffic.

A

 

[KnackeredBike]

A couple of times I week I commute in to Sheffield. The first part is nice and relaxing (even though it is up hill) because the roads are reasonably quiet. The second part through Sheffield in traffic is horrible. I'd love for there to be better cycling infrastructure - preferably completely separated from the car traffic.

A

The problem is that for such infrastructure to be useful for those "10%" cyclists is that it has to be

a) As direct as the road. That means if the road is grade separated the cycle lane should be grade separated too, not crash downhill into a mess of traffic lights. Cycle lanes should get priority through side road junctions.
b) Well surfaced (including utility trenches being repaired properly).
c) Well signed and well lit.
d) Foliage cut back especially around streetlamps.
e) Not have stupidly tight corners, barriers and bollards.
f) Enforcement to stop it being used as a car park.
g) Regularly swept to clear up broken glass/rubbish/abandoned trolleys.

Now I can think of some roads that tick all the boxes but I cannot think of any cycle lane or path that ticks more than a couple. And retrofitting such infrastructure requires a lot of money, and no matter what CB thinks he will not have £billions and probably not even £millions.

 

[GilesM]

Sorry, folks.

But given the choice between Chris Boardman and random CCers? Chris Boardman wins. Hands down.

And as for CCers thinking "it's not the right sort of attitude". FFS

CB was great at going very fast on a bike, and excellent at knowing what makes a bike go fast, but why do you think he knows anything more about what's best for the average person on a bike, and let's be honest he has always been a bit of pro-helmet wearing, uncool eejit, unlike the dude in yellow in the pic below. I think the only time CB ever actually had a collision with a car was when he crashed in front of his own team car during a time trial.

 

[mjr]

Now I can think of some roads that tick all the boxes but I cannot think of any cycle lane or path that ticks more than a couple. And retrofitting such infrastructure requires a lot of money, and no matter what CB thinks he will not have £billions and probably not even £millions.

The retrofits cost a lot but junctions get rebuilt frequently anyway - which is often a problem, with barely-standard cycling infrastructure being crippled into worse-than-useless during upgrades for motorists. It wouldn't take much extra cash for rebuilds to incorporate cycling. Then there's cheaper stuff which can address many boring roads, like replacing a motoring lane with a two-way plastic-post-protected cycleway by painting the lines in different places after resurfacing, or closing off a rat-run with plastic posts - both of those can be done as tests at first. Solid-line cycleways (cars must no enter) don't even need traffic regulation orders any more.

But it's the cheap non-construction stuff on your list which is where most councils currently let down cycling: it wouldn't cost the council much to make utility companies repair trenches properly or to make the foliage cutting contractor actually cut it back to the kerb line rather than leave ever-encroaching vegetation that ultimately requires an expensive rebuilt. More regular sweeping would cost a bit more but zero-tolerance issuing of parking fines for obstructing people cycling surely would bring some money in.

It'll be the retrofits (or lack of) which will probably make (or break) the view of Boardman's commissionership, but it's the maintenance/enforcement stuff where he could probably make the most difference most quickly.

let's be honest he has always been a bit of pro-helmet wearing, uncool eejit,

Have you forgotten the flamewar triggered by him coming out as anti-helmet on the BBC a year or so ago? Heaven hath more joy...

 

[growingvegetables]

... but why do you think he knows anything more about what's best for the average person on a bike, and let's be honest he has always been a bit of pro-helmet wearing, uncool eejit, ...

Not sure we're talking about the same person?

http://road.cc/content/news/111258-chris-boardman-helmets-not-even-top-10-things-keep-cycling-safe, https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/mar/21/bike-helmet-cyclists-safe-urban-warfare-wheels, etc etc.

For me personally, it's not about whether he knows more or less - it's that he gets reported talking some plain common sense about cycling? "Normalising" it? Ordinary fowk, LOTS of, pootling about in ordinary clothes ... as a welcome and overdue addition to the "guys-with-all-the-gear-braving-the-urban-jungle".

 

[GilesM]

Not sure we're talking about the same person?

http://road.cc/content/news/111258-chris-boardman-helmets-not-even-top-10-things-keep-cycling-safe, https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/mar/21/bike-helmet-cyclists-safe-urban-warfare-wheels, etc etc.

For me personally, it's not about whether he knows more or less - it's that he gets reported talking some plain common sense about cycling? "Normalising" it? Ordinary fowk, LOTS of, pootling about in ordinary clothes ... as a welcome and overdue addition to the "guys-with-all-the-gear-braving-the-urban-jungle".

I just remember him wearing a helmet in the The Tour when he didn't need to, and the picture of him and SY in the '94 Tour summed that up perfectly for me, however, after reading the links you posted about him, I have to say he does seem a bit more sound than I thought. Not sure I agree about the common sense, his interview in the OP seems to be the normal old nonsense, encouraging the view that cycling on the roads is a highly dangerous pastime, and having to pay attention to potential risks is all a bit too much, it's funny, when you see surveys about why people don't cycle more, danger seems to be the main reason, hills, headwinds, crap weather, and it's all a bit easier in the car, never seem to be quite as high up the list as they should be if people were honest.

 

[mjr]

I just remember him wearing a helmet in the The Tour when he didn't need to,

I think even the grumpiest of us probably would acknowledge that there's a minor aerodynamic gain in wearing a helmet and he was racing and all about minor gains. I remember him saying that he even wore a non-padded head faring for TTs when it was allowed and would give him a benefit, but I don't remember him saying about his helmet use.

...when you see surveys about why people don't cycle more, danger seems to be the main reason, hills, headwinds, crap weather, and it's all a bit easier in the car, never seem to be quite as high up the list as they should be if people were honest.

Yeah, let's accuse the public of being dishonest and the surveyors of being incompetent - that'll win cycling lots of friends(!)

 

[mjr]

He just seems to have opened his gob without engaging his brain. After all, what's wrong with constantly risk-assessing everything that goes on around you. I do it every time I drive my car, and I expect other drivers to do so. Hell, I even do it when I cross the road.

What's wrong is the severity of your potential injury for not risk-assessing everything around you or making a mistake on it, as well as the relative lack of penalties for those who pose the risk if they injure you. Don't you find that the imbalance makes things more tiring? After all, do you prefer to be walking across a busy road or a quiet park? Why? There's a nugget of truth in what he was saying about riding among only other bikes being less stressful and exhausting IMO.

But I'd probably agree that the overall effect of the interview is a good chomp of his own foot. Nothing in his tweets yet claiming it's a failed joke, either

 

[John the Monkey]

I fear the cyclists of Manchester are in for a whole lot of "get in the bike lane!".

Don't worry, we get a lot of it already. Sometimes from the bus driver that's just knocked us off.

 

[GilesM]

I think even the grumpiest of us probably would acknowledge that there's a minor aerodynamic gain in wearing a helmet and he was racing and all about minor gains. I remember him saying that he even wore a non-padded head faring for TTs when it was allowed and would give him a benefit, but I don't remember him saying about his helmet use.

That would have been for TT, but I'm pretty sure the road helmets in 1994 were purely for safety, even now the aero road helmets are only used by the sprinters and those planning/expecting to be in the break, I would have said the aero effect of a road helmet is about zero when tucked in behind 50 other riders. I think Cav was one of the first to use an aero road helmet in the 2011 worlds, but that was just for the sprint, and I'm not even sure they are better than no helmet, just better than a non aero helmet.

Yeah, let's accuse the public of being dishonest and the surveyors of being incompetent - that'll win cycling lots of friends(!)

If CB is saying it's too dangerous to cycle on the roads, then it's a great excuse for those who prefer their commute to be warm, dry and motorised, most surveys seem to follow his thinking, and base the questions (and multiple choice answers) around the whole safety on the roads thing.

 

[growingvegetables]

If CB is saying it's too dangerous to cycle on the roads, then ...

He was a bit more nuanced than that - "The roads are statistically safe, but it doesn’t look it and it doesn’t feel it. Now I try to do more of my riding off-road, which is sad.” [And of course he has good reason to mistrust that "statistical safety".]

He's spot on with identifying public perceptions of barriers to cycling, though - "59% perceive that roads are too dangerous to cycle on - a record low." [Record low? ] That's the British Social Attitudes Survey 2016: Public attitudes to transport - Page 3, published just a couple of days ago.

 

[confusedcyclist]

This is what Chris is advocating.

Why bash him? If he manages to influence the development of cycling infrastructure in Manchester as above, it would be replicated elsewhere.

 

[Slick]

This is what Chris is advocating.

Why bash him? If he manages to influence the development of cycling infrastructure in Manchester as above, it would be replicated elsewhere.

Wouldn't that be cool.