Choosing drops

[Crackle]

Getting the saddle right is the first bit but I find this much easier than fine tuning the bars. My best method so far has been to get the tops and hoods right, especially the angle of my wrists when on the hoods which the height of the bars influences. I would do this with any bars you have and then see how the drops position is. If it's not right then it's a case of trying to imagine what shape of drop would fit the bill, the links provided would help in this. I also pay attention to the flare, or lack thereof, in the drop part, slightly out suits me better. I've tried a few bars and didn't like the anatomic ones at all, shallow drop seems to work best for me, I have two sets of the FSA Vero Compact now.

Interesting on the shoulders, I do try to conciously follow Sheldons advice to try and round the back rather than allow the upper body to slump between the shoulder blades, not always successfully though.

Just on the saddle height, I think mine was right for how I used to ride but when I got another road bike a few years back my style began to change. I transformed from a big gear masher constantly riding on the rivet to a higher cadence more relaxed style and this has put me in a more upright position and because I'm not pushing so hard my seat height has come down slightly (I'm a toes down pedaler). Anyway I think it needs to come down a bit more but this isn't going to alter my bar selection much.

Also I think I've got some posture problems I need to sort out seperate to the bike, too much sitting on the couch with laptop and dog, so I'm not going to overly worry about the knotted shoulders just now and see if changing the bars helps that anyway.

Back later with some measurements and piccies for perusal.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

If you are reviewing bike fit you might want to check whether existing is in similar ballpark as this suggests.

 

[Crackle]

If you are reviewing bike fit you might want to check whether existing is in similar ballpark as this suggests.

Thanks for that, that was another link I was looking for last night. The good news is, it's all in the ball park. I need to re-measure and collate my bike measurements and I need to read up the different fits again because I've forgotten the pro's and cons of each but it is roughly there, except ..................... I had no seat set back! I'm not quite sure how that happened, I think it must have been when I put on the new saddle and I simply forgot to reset my set back. Now that is definetly significant and will acount for my scrunched shoulders and being further back on the seat definetly makes it easier on the drops so I need to adjust that before I go any further.

This is the problem position, which will improve with the seat in the right place but still won't be right I think

It really knots my shoulders getting to there. If the bars were 4 inches forward, 2 with the seat in the right position, then I can reach it no problem but then I'm in the wrong place on the hoods and the Dawes has a long top tube anyway.

So now I'm not sure. I'm sure different bars will help but I'm beginning to think thats not the root of my problem and I may also need a longer stem because my bike is right for my reach and inseam but not for my longer trunk, if that makes sense. Need to go away and think about it now.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I may also need a longer stem because my bike is right for my reach and inseam but not for my longer trunk, if that makes sense. Need to go away and think about it now.

My comments as follow should be taken with a large lump of salt.


I wonder if having the appropriate saddle setback gives you an effectively longer stem in any case, and I wonder if having a longer reach might exacerbate the issue.

Obviously this depends on your strength and flexibility, but I suspect relatively long back and short arms mean more weight on arms, and neck needing to strain to look ahead, which are all hard on back and shoulders. I would expect the "cure" is higher and/or closer handlebars. This is analogous to the back/neck pain phenomenon apparently common for those riding a frame that is too small, since the saddle ending up too high in relation to handlebars (or handlebars too low in relation to the saddle).

Another (uneducated) observation is that your wrist appears to have to "turn up" quite a bit, i.e. palm is far from being comfortably in-line with your forearm when on the drops, and which probably reflects what you raised in your original post. Perhaps moving the brifters down the bend will help, but a set of suitably shaped compact bars will probably be more effective while not messing up the riding position on the hood at the same time (assuming it is fine).

Regarding width etc. this seems to offer reasonable suggestions.

 

[Crackle]

My comments as follow should be taken with a large lump of salt.


I wonder if having the appropriate saddle setback gives you an effectively longer stem in any case, and I wonder if having a longer reach might exacerbate the issue.

Obviously this depends on your strength and flexibility, but I suspect relatively long back and short arms mean more weight on arms, and neck needing to strain to look ahead, which are all hard on back and shoulders. I would expect the "cure" is higher and/or closer handlebars. This is analogous to the back/neck pain phenomenon apparently common for those riding a frame that is too small, since the saddle ending up too high in relation to handlebars (or handlebars too low in relation to the saddle).

Another (uneducated) observation is that your wrist appears to have to "turn up" quite a bit, i.e. palm is far from being comfortably in-line with your forearm when on the drops, and which probably reflects what you raised in your original post. Perhaps moving the brifters down the bend will help, but a set of suitably shaped compact bars will probably be more effective while not messing up the riding position on the hood at the same time (assuming it is fine).

Regarding width etc. this seems to offer reasonable suggestions.

No, that's all quite astute, except I've given you wrong information. I've had a chance now to double check my measurements and collate it with the bikes. Seat tube measurements are all as they should be. However, the 'turn' you observe is spot on and is a result of my top tube being a couple of cm short of the Eddy & Competitive fit (both recommend the same dimension top tube), which is pretty much the fit I grew up riding. Saddle to bar reach is also short and those two are causing me to have to twist my wrist up. This is because I bought a frame to fit my seam length which it does but it seems my upper body & arms are longer and so the bike is slightly short for me. This is OK because unless I get a custom build I'm never going to get an exact fit for my proportions so I'm always going to be tweaking and compromising somewhere.

So now I've given you the correct information, that in fact I have shorter legs to my relatively long body and arms and not short arms too, then I think it makes sense that with the saddle back and a longer stem (9cm to 11cm), coupled with a shallow drop bar and the brifters in the right place, then this should sort out my reach, knotted back and drop position.

Does that all finally make sense? So I still need to choose different drops which is were I started.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

in fact I have shorter legs to my relatively long body and arms and not short arms too, then I think it makes sense that with the saddle back and a longer stem (9cm to 11cm)

Instead of a stem that is 11cm instead of 9cm, I wonder if it might be worth trying moving the saddle further back by another couple of cm's - a long back should cause one's CG (centre of gravity) to be further forward than typical, which has implications on arms and upper body strains, which I believe in turn should be addressed by moving the saddle back (rather than a longer stem) according to Bontrager's classic article. Just a thought.

 

[Crackle]

Instead of a stem that is 11cm instead of 9cm, I wonder if it might be worth trying moving the saddle further back by another couple of cm's - a long back should cause one's CG (centre of gravity) to be further forward than typical, which has implications on arms and upper body strains, which I believe in turn should be addressed by moving the saddle back (rather than a longer stem) according to Bontrager's classic article. Just a thought.

I've read that article: One of the problems I was trying to solve by buying a smaller frame than I'd had previously was a tendency to come forward onto the nose of the saddle. Now I know everyone does that to some extent but I was at the extreme. This smaller frame has solved that but it seems it's created a problem on the drops which I've only just got around to sussing as I ride 90% of the time on the tops or hoods.

I've moved the saddle back now and I've got maybe an inch more to play with. I'll go for a wee ride today and see if I stick on the saddle. If I do all well and good, if I don't then a longer stem, though counter intuitive may help me. I must admit I've never sussed why this happens, I'd assumed a short reach but I know now I've finally bothered to work it out, that that's not the case.

I like the look of the FSA Omega bars but they only come in black or white, not silver/chromed.

 

[Baggy]

I like the look of the FSA Omega bars but they only come in black or white, not silver/chromed.

Hmm, the FSA bars on the Dawes SE Chuffy had were silver, but am not sure what type they were. I'll investigate.

 

[Crackle]

Edited: I must have measured wrong as moving the saddle back was instantly wrong. So I put it back and have just re-measured it and it already had 2" of setback. As far as I can tell the only dimension that doesn't agree with my measurments is the top tube length, so I think I'll just concentrate on the bars.

Hmm, the FSA bars on the Dawes SE Chuffy had were silver, but am not sure what type they were. I'll investigate.

Yeah, if poss, all handlebars seem to be black at the moment, that won't suit at all. Unless white means silver. Can't tell from the stock piccies.

 

[Crackle]

Anyone know a compact bar that is silver rather than black or white? Can't decide if a compact or the randonneur bar would be better. Need to size up a few showroom bikes.

 

[Fiona N]

I'm a big fan of the old 'Radonneur' style bars too, but they seems remarkably hard to come-by these days.

Me too - I have a pair of ladies randonneur bars in the garage awaiting 'The Project'

My only doubt is if you ride in a close pack - I once got my bars - the flared part of the drops - inside the bars of another cyclist as he rode really closely past (like, budging me out of the way with his shoulders) me in a race. By some miracle we managed to disengage without incident while riding

 

[Crackle]

Resurrecting this thread just to complete it.

Thanks to Jayonabike, who virtually gave me his old FSA Wing Compacts, I've solved the problems I was having. Swopped the bars over and the Wing Compacts are so much better. I have no problems on the drops now and can easily reach the brakes from hoods and drops. Took about an hour riding up and down the road and micro adjusting the position but really that was just to improve on something already 100% better.

Hope to get out on a ride tomorrow to try them out but I'm confident this has solved all my problems.

Jay, I owe you a pint or two.