Chollerford death - man with sleep disorder shouldn't have been on the road.

[shouldbeinbed]

Fair enough. I'm afraid I have driven after taking cough mixture that has warnings about driving and operating machinery though.

A difference between a generic leaflet found in an over the counter cough syrup and a medical professional telling you not to drive in a face to face consultation

 

[GrumpyGregry]

In no way am I making excuses for his behaviour, but quite a few of us have probably come close to falling asleep at the wheel at some stage of our lives.

I'll put my hand up and admit I have actually fallen asleep at the wheel of a car twice.

Both were many years ago. Once, on a Friday evening, driving home from Christchurch after a very intensive week long training course where I had got about 4 hours sleep per night. On the A27 DC near Chichester.

The other was after playing rugby and partying hard, too hard, in Oxford and leaving late on Sunday night only to find the whole S. England blanketed in dense fog.

Young(er). And very, very, stupid.

b-I-l, and other buddies in traffic, say they too often come across single vehicle fatalities in Sussex, CD player turned up really loud, drivers window wound fully down, both testament to the mistaken belief that a driver could not nod off as a result.

 

[slowmotion]

I once drove back from the West Country and got to within five miles of home before realising that my eyelids were like lead weights. I pulled over into a layby, climbed in the back of the van and had a ten minute kip. I was right as rain after that.

 

[roadrash]

^^^^^^^^^^^this post deserves a mega like button ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ never a more true phrase has been uttered

 

[Markymark]

The rhythmic base of loud music can actually make you feel more tired.

 

[jefmcg]

In no way am I making excuses for his behaviour, but quite a few of us have probably come close to falling asleep at the wheel at some stage of our lives.

I know you say you are not making excuses, but it's this attitude 'that could have been me' that makes juries vote "not guilty"

It would be good if we were as ashamed to admit we have driven when we were too tired, as having driven when were drunk.

Maybe I feel this way because they used to show lots of ads like this when I was growing up.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4mvtNU32kQ

 

[Lonestar]

It's too easy to get a driving license and too difficult to take one away.

Looks like it's impaired my grammar in my original post,how embarrassing.

 

[slowmotion]

I know you say you are not making excuses, but it's this attitude 'that could have been me' that makes juries vote "not guilty"



managed to
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4mvtNU32kQ

I've only been on two juries so I can't speak with any great authority. The jurors I were with managed to set aside their personal feelings and judged the cases on the facts that were presented to them with guidance from the judge. For obvious reasons, I have no idea what goes on in other jury rooms.

 

[Hip Priest]

Like the OP, I regularly ride on those roads. You try to rationalise the risk but there's really nothing you can do if someone ploughs into you like that. A lot of people will feel sympathy for this driver, but I don't. I'm tired of this complacency around killer drivers. "There but for the grace of God....We've all been a bit tired....There are no winners in a case like this...etc" He shouldn't have been driving, he knew he shouldn't have been driving, and he killed someone as a result. He should be breaking rocks in the blazing sun.

 

[slowmotion]

Like the OP, I regularly ride on those roads. You try to rationalise the risk but there's really nothing you can do if someone ploughs into you like that. A lot of people will feel sympathy for this driver, but I don't. I'm tired of this complacency around killer drivers. "There but for the grace of God....We've all been a bit tired....There are no winners in a case like this...etc" He shouldn't have been driving, he knew he shouldn't have been driving, and he killed someone as a result. He should be breaking rocks in the blazing sun.

It's quite possible to empathise and find somebody guilty as well if you take jury service seriously. The twenty three other jurors that I came across seemed to understand the responsibility. Maybe all the others don't. I don't know.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

He has pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. That would settle it for most jurors, in a manslaughter by motor vehicle case, I'd have thought.

 

[Tin Pot]

He has pleaded guilty to a lesser charge. That would settle it for most jurors, in a manslaughter by motor vehicle case, I'd have thought.

Is manslaughter the lesser charge?

 

[oldstrath]

Is manslaughter the lesser charge?

According to road.cc he admitted careless driving. So in the eyes of this killer and his liar, driving even though you have been specifically told not to, by a specialist medic, is not outrageously far below the standard expected of the average driver. Yeah, probably right.

 

[slowmotion]

From my very limited experience, I don't think that jurors are so one dimensional that they acquit with "There but for the Grace of God go I" uppermost in their minds. They also think " The victim might have been my daughter/husband/lover" etc. If they take the job seriously, they put those feelings aside and come to a decision in a calm and rational manner. The people I met did anyway. They seemed to realise that their time on a jury was actually one of the most serious duties that they would ever be called on to perform as a citizen. Good for them.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

I've only been on two juries so I can't speak with any great authority. The jurors I were with managed to set aside their personal feelings and judged the cases on the facts that were presented to them with guidance from the judge. For obvious reasons, I have no idea what goes on in other jury rooms.

I have done jury service too and on one of mine there was one guy absolutely blatantly failing to act outside his personal feelings, to the point he was saying he got the evidence and felt the defendant was guilty but didn't want their incarceration on his conscience. It ended up an 11:1 majority verdict. This was a harming children issue too, not driving that is societally seen as a basic civil right and an expectation, rather than a licenced privilege.
Whether we like it or not, people for generations now have reacted to the news someone is a non driver as if they have 2 heads, it is something a large proportion of the population engage in daily and errors, failings or deliberate and wilful flouting of any prohibition is by and large normalised and forgiven as trivial or 'there but.....' by a disturbingly large number of people.

I admire the restraint and dignity of the bereaved family and their decision to donate his organs. I have made the same provisions and my wishes known to mine, citing if I go under a bus one evening as the reason for being so up front about it, but I'm less restrained in this case

I sincerely hope (hahaha) he is charged with manslaughter not a driving offence for knowingly and wilfully using a killing machine against direct medical advice, but assuming he gets even then hardest slap on the wrist the law allows for committing a motoring offence, I hope his life is in tatters and he wakes up screaming every night in horror at what he has done so he can dedicate the rest of his life as a warning to others of what happens to the perpetrator long after we've all forgotten the victim.

Edit: BTW, the other case I sat as a juror on, equally nasty accusations, was unanimous not guilty, before anyone reads this and assumes hang em shoot em.and flog em is my default)