Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death
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Everything is just black and white, isn't it?
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
[QUOTE 4928916, member: 259"]If only he'd had been able to instinctively use the time to clutch something like a front brake lever[/QUOTE]
...or be travelling at an appropriate speed and with enough awareness of his surroundings to be able to spot her more quickly.
...or be travelling at an appropriate speed and with enough awareness of his surroundings to be able to spot her more quickly.
Yellow Fang
Legendary Member
- Location
- Reading
Oops, apologies. I did a search for Alliston and nothing came up.
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
The "otherwise" was more than enough to kill someone.
That wasn't the question.
swansonj
Guru
But isn't that mixing up two different things?
At the point that the woman stepped into the road, he decided not to brake but to shout at her. That may or may not have been the right decision, but seems to have been independent of whether he had one mediocre braking system or one mediocre plus one good.
At the subsequent point that the woman stepped backwards into his path, it seems that it would have been too late for any braking system, no matter how efficient, to reduce the impact speed significantly.
swansonj
Guru
And I agree with that. I would have braked (not that there'd have been a cat in hell's chance of me going at 18 mph to start with). My point is that, once he decided not to brake, the effectiveness or not of his braking systems becomes irrelevant to the subsequent impact.
Yellow Fang
Legendary Member
- Location
- Reading
Personally I don't think he did a lot wrong. Still, having a front brake might have made some difference, and he should have had one. Minor offence * major outcome = moderate punishment. If he had managed to slow from 18 mph to 15 mph his kinetic energy would have been 70% what it was. They say ignorance is no defence in law, but that's for offences that you know are wrong anyway. For example, you might not know what the law of affray is, but you know when you are acting in a threatening manner in a public place. So I suppose it boils down to whether he should have known his bike was more dangerous for not having a front brake.
Still, if he'd been the the one killed in the accident, would she have been prosecuted? Even if he had a front brake?
Still, if he'd been the the one killed in the accident, would she have been prosecuted? Even if he had a front brake?
Origamist
Legendary Member
Charlie comes across as an entitled, charmless tw*t. At his age, I'd like to think I was merely a tw*t.
I have found it difficult to follow the more technical aspects of the case, due to the limitations of the press coverage, particularly with reference to the testimony of the collision expert. However, as the jury heard all the evidence, I would not argue with the verdict.
As someone who has collided with a pedestrian at speed in London, it makes me think how things could have ended so differently for me and the child involved. My thoughts are with the friends and family of Mrs Briggs.
I have found it difficult to follow the more technical aspects of the case, due to the limitations of the press coverage, particularly with reference to the testimony of the collision expert. However, as the jury heard all the evidence, I would not argue with the verdict.
As someone who has collided with a pedestrian at speed in London, it makes me think how things could have ended so differently for me and the child involved. My thoughts are with the friends and family of Mrs Briggs.
U
User482
Guest
[QUOTE 4928987, member: 259"]It would have made a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
Probably, but not certainly. It was freakishly unlucky for her to die from the collision.
Probably, but not certainly. It was freakishly unlucky for her to die from the collision.
[QUOTE 4928987, member: 259"]It would have made a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
on a bike with front and back brakes, In an emergency stop peak breaking efficiency is at the point of almost doing and endo over the front wheel and rear breaking effect is zero.... check out Sheldon for the details.
on a bike with front and back brakes, In an emergency stop peak breaking efficiency is at the point of almost doing and endo over the front wheel and rear breaking effect is zero.... check out Sheldon for the details.
U
User482
Guest
[QUOTE 4929022, member: 259"]You
You never can say, but the slower he was traveling, the slower the impact, and the less potential to kill her. It wasn't freakishly unlucky to not have a front brake, it was really stupid.[/QUOTE]
There's no excuse for riding without a front brake. I guess I'm struggling to understand why travelling at 18mph and attempting to avoid the collision meets the definition of "wanton and furious".
You never can say, but the slower he was traveling, the slower the impact, and the less potential to kill her. It wasn't freakishly unlucky to not have a front brake, it was really stupid.[/QUOTE]
There's no excuse for riding without a front brake. I guess I'm struggling to understand why travelling at 18mph and attempting to avoid the collision meets the definition of "wanton and furious".
Yellow Fang
Legendary Member
- Location
- Reading
[QUOTE 4928987, member: 259"]It would have made a huge difference.[/QUOTE]
Well, very possibly. I have only cycled a friend's fixie once around the block. Come to think of it, the front brake hardly worked. I thought it was a death trap. Emergency braking by suddenly stopping pedalling didn't appear very do-able. I gather fixie riders learn new techniques for stopping, such as lifting the back wheel and stopping pedalling before landing it, but I have not tried it. I would always put a front brake on a fixie if I had one. I don't suppose the jury had much experience with fixies either.
Some BMX riders take off both sets of brakes. I think because it is more cool that way, or maybe because they want to do tricks like spin their handlebars 360 degrees while jumping in the air. I've seen BMXers brake by putting their foot on their back tyre. BMX bikes tend not to travel that fast on the road. Dutch granny bikes with coaster brakes tend not to go that fast either, although they might down hill. In Sweden I saw lots of a certain type of bike that did not seem to have any brakes, but I suppose they must have had back brakes. Presumably they are considered reasonably safe over there.
Well, very possibly. I have only cycled a friend's fixie once around the block. Come to think of it, the front brake hardly worked. I thought it was a death trap. Emergency braking by suddenly stopping pedalling didn't appear very do-able. I gather fixie riders learn new techniques for stopping, such as lifting the back wheel and stopping pedalling before landing it, but I have not tried it. I would always put a front brake on a fixie if I had one. I don't suppose the jury had much experience with fixies either.
Some BMX riders take off both sets of brakes. I think because it is more cool that way, or maybe because they want to do tricks like spin their handlebars 360 degrees while jumping in the air. I've seen BMXers brake by putting their foot on their back tyre. BMX bikes tend not to travel that fast on the road. Dutch granny bikes with coaster brakes tend not to go that fast either, although they might down hill. In Sweden I saw lots of a certain type of bike that did not seem to have any brakes, but I suppose they must have had back brakes. Presumably they are considered reasonably safe over there.
