Charity rides too expensive?

[Bollo]

This reminded me of a Sheldon Brown Op Ed piece...

http://sheldonbrown.com/thons.html

I'm not sure I'd go as far as him, but personally I don't ask people for money to ride my bike, because it's something I do anyway.

 

[Cambie]

As I'm new to cycling and looking to have a few events to train towards, can someone explain the difference between a Sportive and Audax please?

I've entered an Evans ride this weekend which I believe is a Sportive. Am I correct?

 

[w00hoo_kent]

If you don't know which you're riding, it's a sportive. :-)

Someone who really knows will be along in a bit, but I believe the difference is that a Sportive is over a set route with some level of support (normally a food/water point) during the journey while an Audax is a point to point ride where you choose your own route and do all your own support work. From what I've seen Sportives are a one day affair while Audaxes have a tendency to run longer so you end up having to sort out overnight options (like riding through it to catch up time). A Sportive is a not race while an Audax is a not marathon.

 

[totallyfixed]

As I'm new to cycling and looking to have a few events to train towards, can someone explain the difference between a Sportive and Audax please?

I've entered an Evans ride this weekend which I believe is a Sportive. Am I correct?

I can take you out on traffic free roads, no potholes, lovely countryside, any distance you want and tea and cakes at the finish. £25, how does that sound?

 

[w00hoo_kent]

I can take you out on traffic free roads, no potholes, lovely countryside, any distance you want and tea and cakes at the finish. £25, how does that sound?

A bit mean?

You should enjoy the Sportive, it's a different atmosphere to just going for a ride. The organisation side makes it all feel a bit more official (like doing a race without doing a race or being a racer) and riding with a lot of other bikes doing the same route is a very different experience. Have fun with it.

There are some miserly grouches here (I have to admit I'm one to some degree) who baulk at the idea of paying a chunk of money to ride a public road, in my case probably not helped by doing a prep ride and finding out the route I'd planned on MapMyRide mirrored a lot of a still signposted Sportive from some weeks earlier. But my wife still fancies doing one of the local ones, mainly as a target to be ready to do that thing by this moment in time, and we'll probably end up doing it together. So not paying out the money is hardly one of my core pillars of belief :-)

 

[mjr]

As I'm new to cycling and looking to have a few events to train towards, can someone explain the difference between a Sportive and Audax please?

I've entered an Evans ride this weekend which I believe is a Sportive. Am I correct?

Yes, because I think Evans only does Sportives.

British Cycling's handbook says "Sportives are non-competitive, mass participation challenge events, typically timed on a publicised, signposted route, varying in distance of approximately 40-100 miles. The events are designed to be a physical, personal challenge using a combination of distance and severity of the course to test the typical 200 - to 5000 participants. Generally there may be a choice of two or three routes providing opportunities for varying levels of ability. It is expected that there will be regular feed stations and/or check points positioned appropriate to the course, conditions and topography. Timing points and marshals will be appointed as defined by the Risk Assessment."

It also defines audax and leisure rides but I think their definitions are wrong. Let's look somewhere better...

www.aukweb.net says Audax "are NOT races. People ride them more in the spirit of an event like the London Marathon, everyone riding to their own limitations with the primary objective to just 'get round'. These events suit everyone, clubmen, time-trialists, recreational riders, cycletourists, 'born again' cyclists, young and old, male and female. And you'll see all sorts of machines - bikes, tandems, trikes, recumbents, and occasionally even stranger things ... Size of entry varies greatly but is typically around 100 starters. Small local events may have just a handful of riders while a few popular events attract 200 starters or more. The routes typically feature a few fast main roads and a lot of quiet, scenic lanes. Many events are quite hilly, some are extremely hilly, and even the flatter ones usually have one or two challenging climbs. Some events are noted for the quality of home-cooked food and tender loving care supplied along the way. But most are not - self-sufficiency is a highly-regarded quality" "On the same theme, 'support' - for example a following car - is very much frowned upon. There are maximum and minimum time limits, which are designed to suit everyone from the fittest of recreational riders, to more occasional riders who have plenty of determination. Each rider carries a 'brevet card' which is stamped at intermediate checkpoints and at the finish, and which is later returned to the rider as a certificate of their achievement. The success rate on these events is very high - probably only about 10% fail to finish."

So there's quite a bit of overlap. In my experience (I've seen both but only done a few sportives before returning to easy-riding because I felt their rules and the fake-racing ethos weren't fun), Sportives look a lot more like races and have a lot more rules and enforcers, whereas Audax looks more like a point-to-point on bikes (thanks @w00hoo_kent). I think both have varying lengths from short events to multi-day.

 

[totallyfixed]

To be serious for a moment, Audax rides are to be commended, however where they are let down a little for me are when they choose main roads over country lanes. I think the reason for this is historical, many of the routes have been run for donkeys years and do not take into account the changing levels of traffic on what may have been a quiet road in bygone years. I don't know the personalities who run Audax but I wouldn't bet against them being active cyclists who have been riding 60 years or more. I have some friends who are "senior citizens" who still time trial and ride Audaxes and they think nothing of riding on the A14, their attitude being that they have always done so and why should they stop now. An Audax was run last weekend out of Leicester, 100km, but without much trouble a quieter, safer route could easily have been devised.

 

[Pale Rider]

To be serious for a moment, Audax rides are to be commended, however where they are let down a little for me are when they choose main roads over country lanes. I think the reason for this is historical, many of the routes have been run for donkeys years and do not take into account the changing levels of traffic on what may have been a quiet road in bygone years. I don't know the personalities who run Audax but I wouldn't bet against them being active cyclists who have been riding 60 years or more. I have some friends who are "senior citizens" who still time trial and ride Audaxes and they think nothing of riding on the A14, their attitude being that they have always done so and why should they stop now. An Audax was run last weekend out of Leicester, 100km, but without much trouble a quieter, safer route could easily have been devised.

My understanding of audax is you cycle from point A to point B, to C etc.

It is entirely up to you which route you take.

That's part of the self-reliance ethos.

You have to hit each control, which will limit your options a little, but the recommended route - if there is one - is no more than a suggestion.

@jefmcg is an experienced audaxer so could confirm if the above is on the right lines.

 

[mcshroom]

There will be a recommended route on any audax, often a gpx file too. However they are not compulsory other than the controls. I've very rarely been routed down main roads, but at this time of year the rides are more likely to use them instead of country lanes because they are less likely to be icy. There are a few main road bashes around still (like the North West Passage next weekend). but in general a lot of thought appears to have been put into avoiding them on the rides I have ridden.

Most audax organisers are audaxers themselves, and as far as I am aware, all are volunteers.

 

[Pale Rider]

There will be a recommended route on any audax, often a gpx file too. However they are not compulsory other than the controls. I've very rarely been routed down main roads, but at this time of year the rides are more likely to use them instead of country lanes because they are less likely to be icy. There are a few main road bashes around still (like the North West Passage next weekend). but in general a lot of thought appears to have been put into avoiding them on the rides I have ridden.

Most audax organisers are audaxers themselves, and as far as I am aware, all are volunteers.

I recall at the Barnard Castle control of London Edinburgh London a few of the riders talking about risking a stretch of the A19 in the early hours because it was shorter than the gpx route, which avoided the A19.

 

[mcshroom]

I did from Easingwold on the way up to Thirsk (just before I packed) as I was just about spent and couldn't face the Howardian Hills on the suggested route.

 

[totallyfixed]

My understanding of audax is you cycle from point A to point B, to C etc.

It is entirely up to you which route you take.

That's part of the self-reliance ethos.

You have to hit each control, which will limit your options a little, but the recommended route - if there is one - is no more than a suggestion.

@jefmcg is an experienced audaxer so could confirm if the above is on the right lines.

I have done plenty of audaxes, you follow a route sheet, when I did the 400km routes I didn't have a map and gps wasn't around then. It is difficult to follow your own route if you don't know the area anyway, on top of that there were questions you had to answer like the name of a pub in a certain place etc which ensured you did the route as per the directions. Maybe it has all changed? Been a while since I did one but will try and fit one in soon.

 

[Pale Rider]

Maybe it has all changed?

Doubt it.

I suppose LEL is not a typical audax in that there are only a handful of controls which, of necessity, are a long way apart.

So in that respect I didn't pick a representative example.

Fascinating experience for me as a volunteer, which is as close to the event as I will ever get.

 

[vernon]

I have done plenty of audaxes, you follow a route sheet, when I did the 400km routes I didn't have a map and gps wasn't around then. It is difficult to follow your own route if you don't know the area anyway, on top of that there were questions you had to answer like the name of a pub in a certain place etc which ensured you did the route as per the directions. Maybe it has all changed? Been a while since I did one but will try and fit one in soon.

The organised events issue suggested routes with manned controls where you must get the Brevet card stamped to confirm that you have done the ride. Sometimes to make sure that the Audax event is of the specified length, e.g. 50km, 100km, 150km 200km, etc, it mighy be necessary to add a 'kink' to the most direct line route between two controls. Evidence that the kink had been ridden is provided by the riders being asked to record information about a specified feature on the kink e.g. the distace to a village copies from a mile post, the name of the church in a village, the time of evensong, the colour of a clock face on a church tower etc.

Most of the route sheets are easy to follow. One or two events have awful route sheets and supplementary mapping is necessary. The shorter events are as cheap as chips to enter. North Yorks DA of the CTC charge £2 for entries for Audax UK members.

 

[mcshroom]

Sometimes the suggested route is nothing like the shortest. I'll be riding the Ripon Canter next month (you riding again this year @vernon ?) which only has two controls, the start and a cafe in Ripon. The recommended return route is quite a bit longer (and hillier) than just going back the way you came, though it is also far more scenic