Change come hard in the cycling community

[Rhythm Thief]

Many people seem to be under the impression that technology stops when it suits the type of riding they themselves do..

But isn't that absolutely fair enough? After all, I'm not trying to persuade anyone that they shouldn't embrace whatever technology they choose in order to enhance their own riding; I"m merely pointing out why it fails to enhance mine. Cycling is indeed a broad church, and the idea that I would go out and ride with anyone else, let alone try and keep up with them, is anathema to me. This does not, in any way, need to affect how anyone else rides their bike or what tech they choose to adopt, and yet there remains an often strident subsection of cyclists who are always ready to tell me why I should be using disc brakes, Di2 or aero carbon frames, all of which I've tried and none of which have made my cycling more enjoyable. In short, you do you and I'll do me and everyone can be happy.

 

[Dogtrousers]

But what really goes wrong with 'high tech' kit?

9 years of MTB's and 6 of road bikes with hydro discs and not one of the 4 bikes has ever missed a beat.

Clipless pedals, 9,10,11 speed divetrains & thru axles have all performed as they should with no hassles at all.

Not tried electronic shifting or tubeless tyres yet.

Aside from not charging the battery I've not read of reliability problems with electronic shifting. Other than forgetting to charge the battery that is. Never tried it mind.

I've had a rear gear cable break, and have had front mech problems. Both probably due to my own lack of mechanical skills. So cable gears can fail just as electronic ones can.

Both cases most often due to user error.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Aside from not charging the battery I've not read of reliability problems with electronic shifting. Other than forgetting to charge the battery that is. Never tried it mind.

I've had a rear gear cable break, and have had front mech problems. Both probably due to my own lack of mechanical skills. So cable gears can fail just as electronic ones can.

Both cases most often due to user error.

In my case, the issue was not failing to charge the battery, but having to spend a significant amount to replace a battery which would no longer take a charge, and pay a bike shop to diagnose the problem and fit the new battery. This stung a bit, given - as I mentioned above - that I could happily sort out most issues with mechanical gears with no more than new cables and some fettling, say around a tenner total investment. For me, serviceability and economy are far more important than any advantages conveyed by electronic shifting, although of course this is not the case for everyone.

 

[Alex321]

That's a fair point, but the flip side is that, while I'm more than comfortable building bikes and doing any job required on them (including on hydraulic disc systems), my experience of Di2 as detailed above is that it requires some investment in diagnostics software; disc brakes, while simple enough in principle, are simply too vulnerable to contamination to be suitable for use in bikes, where the smallest amount of chain lube from the other side of the hub is enough to set the things squealing in a teeth-gratingly irritating manner. (And no matter how careful you are to avoid contamination, it does happen.) Fine, if the performance gains provided by disc brakes are important to you then that's something you can live with, but for me using the bike to get to work and finding rim brakes to be in no way inadequate - certainly not inferior to discs for the sort of riding I do - it wasn't. I tried discs and genuinely didn't get along with them: since selling the bike and going back to rim brakes, my riding has been entirely trouble-free and my bikes significantly easier and cheaper to service. And I've never once struggled to stop in time, in any circumstances.

I haven't found my disc brakes particularly susceptible to contamination, and I ride in all weathers, on a lot of small country lanes with all sorts of dirt and water, so I need to lube my drivetrain reasonably often.

They do get noisy when wet, but they still stop you just as well, which rim brakes just don't in the wet.

 

[freiston]

I vaguely recall my nephew telling me of a friend a few years ago, being "off the road" for a few days until he could get a Di2 firmware update. I can't remember very well, but I think it was after a drivetrain component change.

I might be looking through rose-tinted glasses, or I might have the "luck" to live through certain scenarios, but I don't remember the compatibility issues "back in the day" (70s/80s) that are so common nowadays. Then again, I've never had cutting edge but I suspect it's a combination of rose-tinted specs and naivety. Most of the incompatibility seems to derive from cable pull requirements (and wheel size trends). Saying that, I'm happy with my 7spd, 9spd and 10spd bikes but one of them I did change from indexed to friction.

I've embraced threadless headsets, clipless pedals, and indexing to an extent. My latest bike has through axles and disc brakes and it was a conscious decision to get them - not necessarily because I positively wanted the change but because, at this moment, it seemed daft not to. I'm happy with them and don't regret it.

I haven't been persuaded to go tubeless yet. If I do, it won't be because of punctures but because of wanting really low tyre pressures.

My big concern about "change" is when it is sales driven and creates a false obsolescence/upgrade path (and the associated culture), making it difficult for the cyclist who, for whatever reason, doesn't want to "upgrade" or even who just wants to keep their current technology going. There are obvious reasons why computer technology is like that but even there, there is a bit of a kick-back to the obsolescence/upgrade trap, with some businesses hanging on to older operating systems and software for as long as possible because the rate of change is too fast to be sustainable for them.

 

[ColinJ]

I haven't found my disc brakes particularly susceptible to contamination, and I ride in all weathers, on a lot of small country lanes with all sorts of dirt and water

I borrowed my cousin's commuting bike when I was in Scotland a few months back. The disc brakes were terribly contaminated! They made an awful noise and were only working at about 10-20% of my rim brakes' efficiency. I managed to get one of the brakes working a lot better by braking heavily on some fast descents and burning off most of the crap but the other brake didn't improve much. I think that the bike needed new pads and the discs scrubbing.

I confess that I have never managed to contaminate the discs on any of my 3 disc-braked bikes though.

 

[PaulSB]

Aside from not charging the battery I've not read of reliability problems with electronic shifting. Other than forgetting to charge the battery that is. Never tried it mind.

I've had a rear gear cable break, and have had front mech problems. Both probably due to my own lack of mechanical skills. So cable gears can fail just as electronic ones can.

Both cases most often due to user error.

The few incidences I know of have been charging related and I haven't heard anyone speak of an issue for several years. The reasons mentioned were usually on the lines of "I forgot to check the battery level" or "I charged it, the light showed 100%" - both I suspect were user error.

I had one friend who was off the road for eight days. The battery failed. It was under warranty and replaced FOC but the owner wasn't a regular customer of the local LBS and bought the bike online. The LBS took the view the owner could either pay for a new battery or wait for a new battery to be sent under warranty. She elected to wait.

I know the LBS in question. A regular customer who bought a bike from them would have got a replacement battery in 24 hours.

Another friend had an internal cable which was damaged. That took an age to find.

When electronic gears fail one is left stuck in one gear. The same I believe is true with a broken cable.

 

[PaulSB]

@Rhythm Thief for years I resisted the change to electronic shifting on the basis of cabled systems being quick and simple to fix. I fully appreciate your point.

A recent RTC left me with three broken fingers on the righthand. My consultant, a cyclist in his mid 40s, advised I consider electronic shifting.

I chatted with two very experienced mechanics whom I have great respect for. Both convinced me the tales of failure are in the distant past and the modern systems are no more likely to let me down than a cabled system.

In terms of helping my broken fingers, its been a revelation!!

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I haven't found my disc brakes particularly susceptible to contamination, and I ride in all weathers, on a lot of small country lanes with all sorts of dirt and water, so I need to lube my drivetrain reasonably often.

They do get noisy when wet, but they still stop you just as well, which rim brakes just don't in the wet.

It was the noise I couldn't live with!

 

[Dogtrousers]

When electronic gears fail one is left stuck in one gear. The same I believe is true with a broken cable.

Indeed, and with a mechanical mech this is normally top gear. Unless you have a long way to go and are prepared to do a time consuming bodge that involves reversing the cable and seating the nipple against the cable stop on the frame. I've read about that but never done it. I imagine it woul be tricky with a frayed broken cable.

On second thoughts, it's actually 2 (or 3) gears if your front mech is still ok.

 

[Dogtrousers]

But isn't that absolutely fair enough? After all, I'm not trying to persuade anyone that they shouldn't embrace whatever technology they choose in order to enhance their own riding;

This is very much the point. New bike tech doesn't tend to render old stuff obsolete overnight. It tends to just add a choice, take it or leave it.

Over a period of years some stuff does eventually die out, or become rare/ hard to find if the new thing proves very popular with the public and/or cuts manufacturing costs. I'm thinking friction shifters, threaded headsets, freewheel blocks ... and cotter pins

Discs weren't all that popular when I bought my bike so it has rim brakes. If buying new now I'd probably go for discs, but that's no reason for me to look for a new bike now.

One area where I am a new-stuff junkie is GPS and other tech. Other people happily soldier on with perfectly adequate Etrexes and the like, or even paper maps, but I just have to have the latest techy toys.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Only if it’s reliable and non faff. Technology is one of those things that’s great when it works, and an exercise in frustration when it doesn’t.

Exactly. I've recently upgraded to a dedicated GPS unit, used it a little for navigation but mostly it just records my rides and sends them to my RidewithGPS account. Its very good integration and requires no subscription (for now!), and it saves me faffing with the phone at the start of a ride loading the app and getting the course recorded. The GPS app also is giving me a nice weekly/monthly average mileage which is motivating me to keep riding.

I could of course do all of this by hand and old fashioned mathamatics, indeed I used to keep .xls sheets of rides but the time saved is great. Long may it keep working!

 

[Ming the Merciless]

But what really goes wrong with 'high tech' kit?

In the case of dual shifters they eat cables, little bits go ping never to be seen again, and they break.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I'm thinking friction shifters

These are neither rare nor hard to find. Though because they don’t break, sales will not be as high as alternate shifting designs.

 

[Dogtrousers]

These are neither rare nor hard to find. Though because they don’t break, sales will not be as high as alternate shifting designs.

I bought some myself a few years ago as I still use them. They are definitely rare on new bikes and while "hard to find" may be a bit of an overstatement I did have to search around a bit. Same would probably apply if I wanted a 5 speed freewheel block or a threaded headset. They are a bit exotic/unusual.