Carb deficit and cycling

[Fiona N]

When I was racing and doing 12/24hour TTs in Australia in the '80s I experimented with the then fashionable carb-loading before long events. This entailed cutting carbs pretty much completely from the diet for a few weeks prior to the event while maintaining as high quality training as possible. Then the last few days prior to the event carbs would be reintroduced to supposedly 'overload' the glycogen stores. The lengths of the cycles seemed to depend on the coach/author consulted but I tried 2 weeks/3 days, 4 weeks/1 week and 6 weeks/1 week of no carb/carbs prior to the event.

After 3 attempts, it was clear that my body was not happy without a minimum level of carb intake and I reckoned that the loss of quality training (loss of intensity, basically) and the slower recovery (which I reckon is the critical thing in any sort of training) from that training was actually detrimental and I was much better sticking to a normal diet. Remember that in the '80s glucose polymer (malto-dextrin based) drinks hadn't been invented (or at least they were confined to the science labs) so refueling on a 24 hr TT, say, was pretty unscientific compared to nowadays, and anything which increased energy stores and reduced refuelling demand during the event was badly needed.

While anecdotes aren't the same as evidence, too many people I know who tried the same thing in various permutations found the same loss of form if carb loading was undertaken for more than a few days.

Admittedly, part of the problem for me personally was that I was vegetarian at the time and also didn't eat cheese or most milk products on health grounds, so eating enough calories became a bit of a chore without really loading on the oils, nuts and eggs. Under normal circumstances I ate a lot of really nutritious home-made bread based on triticale (higher protein type of wheat) with lots of seeds. Obviously this was off the menu during the no-carbs periods

 

[Crankarm]

When I was racing and doing 12/24hour TTs in Australia in the '80s I experimented with the then fashionable carb-loading before long events. This entailed cutting carbs pretty much completely from the diet for a few weeks prior to the event while maintaining as high quality training as possible. Then the last few days prior to the event carbs would be reintroduced to supposedly 'overload' the glycogen stores. The lengths of the cycles seemed to depend on the coach/author consulted but I tried 2 weeks/3 days, 4 weeks/1 week and 6 weeks/1 week of no carb/carbs prior to the event.

After 3 attempts, it was clear that my body was not happy without a minimum level of carb intake and I reckoned that the loss of quality training (loss of intensity, basically) and the slower recovery (which I reckon is the critical thing in any sort of training) from that training was actually detrimental and I was much better sticking to a normal diet. Remember that in the '80s glucose polymer (malto-dextrin based) drinks hadn't been invented (or at least they were confined to the science labs) so refueling on a 24 hr TT, say, was pretty unscientific compared to nowadays, and anything which increased energy stores and reduced refuelling demand during the event was badly needed.

While anecdotes aren't the same as evidence, too many people I know who tried the same thing in various permutations found the same loss of form if carb loading was undertaken for more than a few days.

Admittedly, part of the problem for me personally was that I was vegetarian at the time and also didn't eat cheese or most milk products on health grounds, so eating enough calories became a bit of a chore without really loading on the oils, nuts and eggs. Under normal circumstances I ate a lot of really nutritious home-made bread based on triticale (higher protein type of wheat) with lots of seeds. Obviously this was off the menu during the no-carbs periods

There's a lot of sense in your posts clearly borne from experience.

Quite what the OP is trying to achieve or find out defeats me as he says he would not undertake a low carb diet himself and didn't really grasp your full response with regard to the Inuit diet principally governed by their food supply and limited access to certain food groups which they manage to obtain in some form, eg honey for carbs.

For me a healthy balanced diet in moderation with regular exercise is the key. In undertaking extreme physical exertion the diet can be tweaked to take account of this to avoid running out of fuel or risking injury.

 

[Crankarm]

I wouldn't agree entirely with that. It's probably true to say that some advocates of the diet believe that (and the 'primitive diet' argument does have some persuasive arguments imho, so - yes - I personally would say such diets have an arguable "rationale") but I'm equally sure there are other reasons why someone might want a no-carb diet. What they might be, I don't know but the "why" of it doesn't actually bother me. Suffice to say, I wouldn't class it as deluded even though I wouldn't personally do it.

I'm going to read further on this, especially the "at a push" aspect you refer to. I really would like to know just how adaptable our systems are and what, if anything, is compromised. Intuition (or previous teachings, call it what you will) tells me carb is essential. The study would suggest otherwise. I like it when I get these knowledge clashes!

Are the Inuits noted for their cycling achievements ?

 

[viniga]

As comments are being invited and no particular points are being made...

I'm reading Fallen Angel, the biog of Fausto Coppi. The author mentions in passing that Coppi was a bit of an experimenter and was the/one of the first to develop the use of high carb diets in cycle racing. Up until then the 'standard' pre-race nutritional preparation was a steak.

 

[darkstar]

I literally could not give up Carbs. They are the foundation of my diet. Pasta fuels me for just about any exercise. With lean meats, fruit and veg. I can't see giving up on carbs improving your endurance capacity, the energy they provide is fundamental.

 

[yello]

As comments are being invited and no particular points are being made...

Absolutely spot on and exactly what I like, a meandering discussion!

To any one that is confused; I have no personal agenda, no desire to achieve anything here. I'm not trying to find out anything in particular from anyone on the forum. If I was seriously interested in the diet, I would have posted on a different forum, one more suited to the nature of the interest!

I was merely presenting something that I found interesting for comment. I'm not advocating the Inuit diet, primitive diets or even no/low carb diets. The study I linked to mentions the Inuits merely as a backdrop to the study - me mentioning that seems to have caused the confusion. I don't give a toss about the sodding Inuits!

Perhaps my attempted clarification a few posts back wasn't clear.

 

[yello]

While anecdotes aren't the same as evidence, too many people I know who tried the same thing in various permutations found the same loss of form if carb loading was undertaken for more than a few days.

In the context of a discussion on a forum, I think anecdotes are fine.

Perhaps in the study I linked to, the athletes were stable on their low carb diets. That is, they didn't do the bust/boom cycle of the carb loading you refer to. The study does say the athletes performance dipped initially but, after a couple of weeks on the diet, performance recovered; as if the body had adjusted to deriving energy from fat & protein. I don't know, I'm only guessing. As I said before, my intuition is that you need carb to fuel effort. That's why this study interested me.

 

[shippers]

I'm always amazed how well people can get by on diets that are utterly, utterly shocking!

Obvioulsy if you're training hard you need to keep an eye on what you're eating but if you look at how much crap some people stuff into themselves, and the amount of alcohol they pour in, and most people's bodies plug away for 60 years!
Obviously this is a tangent and "plugging away" is not what most people on this forum want to do...

Sorry, I'll go now.

 

[Crankarm]

I'm always amazed how well people can get by on diets that are utterly, utterly shocking!

Obvioulsy if you're training hard you need to keep an eye on what you're eating but if you look at how much crap some people stuff into themselves, and the amount of alcohol they pour in, and most people's bodies plug away for 60 years!
Obviously this is a tangent and "plugging away" is not what most people on this forum want to do...

Sorry, I'll go now.

Shocking. Some people are only switched on when they are plugged in .

IGMC.

 

[yello]

most people's bodies plug away for 60 years!

There's often a great deal of medical propping up along the way, especially in the later years. Modern medicine can counter some of the effects of poor diet (and lifestyle) but death will always win out in the end!

 

[shippers]

...but death will always win out in the end!

Well, yes... no matter how healthy the diet!

 

[Vega]

I think we have all been conditioned to think that in order to perform well in an endurance sport, we must carb up before hand. I grew up being taught to eat lots of pasta the night before a game so I'd have plenty of energy. I do believe however that one can have plenty of energy to perform without carb-loading. I wouldn't do a no-carb diet but a low-carb diet seems fine. I used to think that I needed soft drinks to get through the afternoon but now I drink water throughout the day and have plenty of energy. And I don't crash like I used to with soft drinks.

 

[Hont]

I'm sure I've read some posts on this forum from people who have tried this - or maybe the Atkins diet - and reported that for 1-2 weeks they felt dreadful, but once their body adjusted it was not too bad. And they lost loads of weight. Need them to post really rather than a third party with poor recollection. Sorry B)

 

[steviesch]

lets be careful out there - my son and heir carb depleted for a road race and then carbo loaded but probably started too late - morning of day before race in the afternoon. He bonked massively after an hour and had puking for a day or so plus a dose of squits for some days after....

 

[jimboalee]

"The adrenaline was flowing. One can go for quite a while on that. That and water".

This is a quote by the CO of 1st Paras, referring to the taking of Arnhem bridge in September 1944.


You are worried about a few hours cycling?