Campagnolo RD cable pull - 2011 vs last decade?

[g00se]

If I were you, I'd be tempted to fit the new levers and get a new mech - at least you'll have state of the art components.

How much did the levers and cables cost? They seem to list at about £130 for both together but you can buy them online discounted for about £80-£90:

http://www.cyclingbargains.com/prod...y=GBP&stdSID=8ec82837ca104389910c8ba79da46c8d

http://www.dotbike.com/p/9985?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=FGL

I've been watching a few on ebay and mint veloce new-shape levers tend to go for near £70 WITHOUT cables - that's why I'm planning to get new ones (2010 ultrashift). So I would think you could get near the current discounted new prices for it - or even make some if you sell the levers and cables separately.


See - levers:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Campagnolo-Ve...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item20b8288541

cables:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Campagnolo-Er...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2eb2e51d48

 

[smiorgan]

I've been watching a few on ebay and mint veloce new-shape levers tend to go for near £70 WITHOUT cables - that's why I'm planning to get new ones (2010 ultrashift). So I would think you could get near the current discounted new prices for it - or even make some if you sell the levers and cables separately.

Don't know your budget or prefs but if I buy new levers I will go for Centaur Alloy as I can't stand the plastic shift lever. Parker International have the 2011 version and GBCycles had the 2010 version, both vendors with a reasonable discount off the mrrp. Maybe your preferred levers will be similarly discounted.

 

[Will1985]

Have a look at highonbikes on ebay - £90 for Veloce Ultrashift ergos + cables. I got myself more of these last week to stick on a future project. It's becoming harder to find the superior Veloce US shifters. I already use them on my race bike instead of more expensive running gear so if I crash they are less likely to break (had that with carbon ergos before), and if they did it would be cheaper to replace.

I've also seen old and new working as recently as yesterday on a friend's hack bike - the 2006 Xenon 9s shifters I sold him plus a 2011 Veloce rear derailleur.

By the way, Infinite just meant black Veloce in 2007-8.

 

[smiorgan]

Result! Sort of. Followed a link from the CTC forum on Shimergo.

http://forum.ctc.org...php?f=5&t=38963

They link to Highpath Engineering's site

http://www.highpath..../info/rear.html

Excellent article on mixing and matching mechs and shifters, together with the pitch for shimano and campag.

Skip to the bottom for info on fine-tuning the rear mech.

Chris Bell states that shifter and mech should be from same vintage - so it doesn't specifically address this problem of mixing pre and post 2010 campag. My only concern is that the derailleur return spring which will be matched to the ergo ratchet mechanism is too strong when you mix vintages. If that's not the case it should be possible to fine tune the cable pull.

Edit - here's the CTC's main Shimergo page

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

 

[youngoldbloke]

I think I am going to try the 2011 P/S shifters with the 2007 Veloce mech and see what happens. The Highpath Engineering's site looks very useful re. fine tuning. I bought the shifters and cable set at a very good discount before last Christmas, so even if I replace the rear mech with a 2011 one I won't be much out of pocket compared with current prices for the 2010 U/S shifters. At the time the U/S shifters were rare and very expensive, and after a lot of research I was reassured that the new shifters would work with the old mech. We shall see!

Will1985 said: By the way, Infinite just meant black Veloce in 2007-8
- in fact it has a glossy black outer plate with the other parts self coloured alloy etc. (like the 2011 Chorus) - IMO better looking than the later all-black version, and visually a better match to the front changer.

- also: I've also seen old and new working as recently as yesterday on a friend's hack bike - the 2006 Xenon 9s shifters I sold him plus a 2011 Veloce rear derailleur.
That is interesting, as it is the shifter determining the movement of the rear derailleur, and if the geometry of the 2011 mech was very different you would expect the degree of movement to be compromised. Was it a 2011 new logo mech?

 

[Will1985]

It works - people have been using 11 speed derailleurs with older 10 speed shifters for a couple of years without a problem, with some citing improved shifting. We know 9 and 10 speed derailleurs were interchangeable, so I would guess the reasoning behind my old 9 speed ergos is the same. Also presumably with fewer gears, the tolerances can afford to be slightly slacker.

I find it slightly odd that Campagnolo would change the design of 10 speed equipment to match 11 speed. The change of 9 speed specification in 2001 caused problems for consumers and this would effectively do the same. Meanwhile it would be telling everyone that they can mix and match 10 speed (2011) and 11 speed parts, which is what Campagnolo have been trying to say was not possible for the last two years.

 

[youngoldbloke]

It works - people have been using 11 speed derailleurs with older 10 speed shifters for a couple of years without a problem, with some citing improved shifting. We know 9 and 10 speed derailleurs were interchangeable, so I would guess the reasoning behind my old 9 speed ergos is the same. Also presumably with fewer gears, the tolerances can afford to be slightly slacker.

- but we have yet to hear anyone specifically state that 2011 new logo Power Shift 10 speed levers work perfectly with pre 2011 10 speed mechs, which is rather different to older shifters working new rear mechs, as the shifter is what determines the pitch of the RD. Anyway, the operation of my Veloce set up is deteriorating rapidly, so I will have to change the shifters soon - will let you know how it works out.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

- but we have yet to hear anyone specifically state that 2011 new logo Power Shift 10 speed levers work perfectly with pre 2011 10 speed mechs, which is rather different to older shifters working new rear mechs, as the shifter is what determines the pitch of the RD. Anyway, the operation of my Veloce set up is deteriorating rapidly, so I will have to change the shifters soon - will let you know how it works out.

If and when you (or anyone else) do, could you measure the pull of the cable for each click* so that we can compare it with the figures in the ctc table?

* I suggest sticking a piece of paper on the frame/stay where the cable travels along, and a piece of stick tape on the cable, and mark and measure distance sticky tape travels in N-2 clicks when N is number of speed, omitting the shift into the highest gear (when the cable may be going slack), then dividing distance sticky tape travelled in mm by (N-2).

 

[smiorgan]

I now have a bit of anecdotal information on the cable pull. I have used both a 2005 Centaur and 2011 Veloce mech with my bar-ends. Whereas the centaur mech needed the lever roughly parallel with the end of the bar to get into the largest sprocket (from a position 90 deg to the end of the bar in the smallest sprocket), the new mech needs to be pulled further. Quite a bit further in fact - I now need the full range of the lever so that it just touches the upper part of the barcon housing. Any more and it would have bottomed out. To get a bit more pull I routed the cable differently (per the Highpath Engineering site's diagrams) but it still needs a lot of pull.

I'd say that if I were to put my 9sp levers with the new mech they would probably undershift by 1 sprocket or more, over the range of the cassette. Maybe my memory is exaggerating the difference with the old RD but it's definitely more cable pull needed. which makes perfect sense if you're trying to fit an extra sprocket in and shift effectively - the tolerances needed for 11sp with the older cable pull wouldn't be achievable.

Potentially this has implications for mating the new levers with a stronger return spring on the old style RD as well - maybe you would strip the teeth from the ratchet over time?