Buses ignoring Advance Stop Lines

[subaqua]

The prohibition on passing over the stop line applies to any part of the vehicle when the red light is showing; if the front of the vehicle has already crossed that line when the light goes red, it is an offence under s.36 Road Traffic Act 1988 for it to proceed further.

GC

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-circular-02-2003/2003-traffic-signs.pdf
lifted from the DfT guidance circular on the TSRGD 2002 My bold

• A new regulation 43 clarifies the meaning of "primary signal", "secondary signal" and "stop line" (previously given in the old regulation 33(6)) in relation to light signals, including those at junctions where there are two stop lines. Regulation 43(2) specifies and clarifies the significance of each of the stop lines shown in the advanced cycle stop line layout prescribed in diagram 1001.2 in Schedule 6 so that it is consistent with the advice given in rule 154 of the current Highway Code.
• All vehicles are required to stop at any stop line when a red signal is showing, or, if they can safely stop, an amber one. If an ASL is provided, all vehicles must stop at the

second stop line if they have already passed the first when the signal changes to red. All ASL layouts are required to have an approach cycle lane, whether advisory or mandatory. If a red signal is showing, pedal cyclists may only enter the reservoir ahead of the first stop line via the cycle lane. They may not do so by crossing the stop line. Traffic authorities need to provide layouts that allow pedal cyclists to access the reservoir via the cycle lane without being obstructed by other vehicles. The cycle lane should be long enough for cyclists to bypass the queue of motor vehicles without weaving. An advisory approach lane can be indicated by use of the markings to diagrams 1057 and 1004 or 1004.1, without an upright sign to diagram 967.

14. Direction 18(2) specifies that the ASL marking to diagram 1001.2 may be placed only
at a signalled junction - it may not be used at level crossings or standalone signal-controlled crossings (for pedestrians, cyclists or equestrians).
I am going to have some fun with this guidance and LBWF and Hackernee council

 

[gaz]

D'you know, I just knew you'd ask me that!

That's from memory but I'll track down the authority for it and come back to you.


GC

HAHA.. i've looked and can't see anything which states if it is bodywork or tyres.

 

[MontyVeda]

if it says vehicle then use your noggin and assume it means bodywork and tyres.


The advance stop thingies up here appear to be respected by most drivers, including taxis and buses!

 

[benb]

If a red signal is showing, pedal cyclists may only enter the reservoir ahead of the first stop line via the cycle lane. They may not do so by crossing the stop line.

Why are they persisting with this lunacy?

 

[Norm]

The rule is not lunacy if you think about it, IMO. The rule is that no vehicles can cross a solid line at red, and that applies to all vehicles at all traffic signals.

Which means that the only way into an ASZ is along the cycle lane.

Now, the positioning of cycle lanes, that I will grant is often lunacy but, IMO, the rule is a good one.

 

[classic33]

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/dft-circular-02-2003/2003-traffic-signs.pdf
lifted from the DfT guidance circular on the TSRGD 2002 My bold

• A new regulation 43 clarifies the meaning of "primary signal", "secondary signal" and "stop line" (previously given in the old regulation 33(6)) in relation to light signals, including those at junctions where there are two stop lines. Regulation 43(2) specifies and clarifies the significance of each of the stop lines shown in the advanced cycle stop line layout prescribed in diagram 1001.2 in Schedule 6 so that it is consistent with the advice given in rule 154 of the current Highway Code.
• All vehicles are required to stop at any stop line when a red signal is showing, or, if they can safely stop, an amber one. If an ASL is provided, all vehicles must stop at the

second stop line if they have already passed the first when the signal changes to red. All ASL layouts are required to have an approach cycle lane, whether advisory or mandatory. If a red signal is showing, pedal cyclists may only enter the reservoir ahead of the first stop line via the cycle lane. They may not do so by crossing the stop line. Traffic authorities need to provide layouts that allow pedal cyclists to access the reservoir via the cycle lane without being obstructed by other vehicles. The cycle lane should be long enough for cyclists to bypass the queue of motor vehicles without weaving. An advisory approach lane can be indicated by use of the markings to diagrams 1057 and 1004 or 1004.1, without an upright sign to diagram 967.


14. Direction 18(2) specifies that the ASL marking to diagram 1001.2 may be placed only
at a signalled junction - it may not be used at level crossings or standalone signal-controlled crossings (for pedestrians, cyclists or equestrians).
I am going to have some fun with this guidance and LBWF and Hackernee council

Blimey, that would mean nearly every cyclelane on the road near me fails to meet the regulations

 

[Manifietso]

Be kind to bus drivers - let them out / wave for them to go first (it's much more pleasant than having them overtake you a few yards on). Then they'll start being kind to others.

In my experience of using buses, most bus drivers are helpful and as they only have one entry / exit here I thank them on leaving as a matter of course.

Most buses are not a problem for cyclists and most respect ASLs. However, there is clearly a sizeable minority that do not, and my reasons for singling them out, as opposed to other road users are given above, namely that they are more traceable (but route number or bus ID) and that they should be held to higher standards as they are professional drivers. Also, if they are involved in a collision with a bike, due to their substantial size, the bike doesn't have much chance. I note with interest the thread about bus training videos and would be interested to know what nxcoventry do in that respect.

They have at least given me a generic reply to my email, so let's see if they say any more.

 

[subaqua]

Blimey, that would mean nearly every cyclelane on the road near me fails to meet the regulations

hence the last line of my post. Several "New" ASLs ,in effect just a repaint of badly worn ones, have this problem. 2 solid white lines which means no access to ASL when light is on red.

 

[benb]

The rule is not lunacy if you think about it, IMO. The rule is that no vehicles can cross a solid line at red, and that applies to all vehicles at all traffic signals.

Which means that the only way into an ASZ is along the cycle lane.

Now, the positioning of cycle lanes, that I will grant is often lunacy but, IMO, the rule is a good one.

I would prefer it if the rule was that motorised vehicles couldn't cross either line on red, and bicycles couldn't cross the second line on red. That would reinforce the idea that the ASZ is "our" space.

Failing that, ensure there is a feeder lane on each lane of traffic into the ASZ.

 

[Richard Mann]

The rules are about to be changed so that bikes can cross the first stop line on red. To bring the rules in line with reality.

This also avoids the "need" to paint silly little gates (we don't bother in Oxford - they're much neater without, and if the road's that narrow, the cyclist should be in primary anyway)

 

[benb]

The rules are about to be changed so that bikes can cross the first stop line on red. To bring the rules in line with reality.

This also avoids the "need" to paint silly little gates (we don't bother in Oxford - they're much neater without, and if the road's that narrow, the cyclist should be in primary anyway)

Good. Do you know when, or have a link?

 

[Richard Mann]

Good. Do you know when, or have a link?

It was in Norman Baker's signs review (in which they also allowed No Entry except cycles). Dunno when it's happening exactly.

 

[subaqua]

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/signing-the-way/signing-the-way.pdf

unlikely to be fully implemented before 2014, although some may be allowed in stages. Not going to hold my breath on this one. Worboys (1963 ??) took long enough apparently, and there are still lots of Pre Worboys report signs about. and not ones kept for historic reasons

 

[benb]

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/signing-the-way/signing-the-way.pdf

unlikely to be fully implemented before 2014, although some may be allowed in stages. Not going to hold my breath on this one. Worboys (1963 ??) took long enough apparently, and there are still lots of Pre Worboys report signs about. and not ones kept for historic reasons

Maybe in the meantime they could issue guidance to the police not to bother prosecuting for it? In fact, I'd be quite surprised in any case if a cyclist had been pulled over for doing this.

 

[Banjo]

Not just a London problem nor is it only Buses. I would say that in Cardiff the ASZ is occupied by a vehicle of some sort nearly half the tmes I get caught at a red light.

The Advanced Stop Line was a major change in traffic regulations which is fine in theory but with no public awareness campaign to go with it only new drivers and probably cyclists really know what the rules are.

Im sure some drivers do know but just couldnt care as there seems to be no policing of it.

A nationwide publicity/education phase followed by a zero tolerance approach by police would change the situation very quickly. Not holding my breath though.