BSO

[apollo179]

The expert did assemble the bike !
What makes you say he was incompetent

 

[Mad at urage]

The expert did assemble the bike !
What makes you say he was incompetent

Do you have difficulty reading apollo 179?

So the expert who couldn't assemble the bike without other tools was also incompetent was he?

Or in comprehending the difference between "assemble the bike" and "assemble the bike without other tools"?

Genuine question, since subtleties seem lost on you. I'm looking for a reason for your inability to distinguish the point of marketing BSOs at the inexperienced.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The expert did assemble the bike !
What makes you say he was incompetent

He needed additional tools and then only just managed to make it ridable. You state that "Incompetent assembly is going to result in problems regardless of the inherant quality of the bike." If the expert hand no access to additional tools he would have failed to assemble the bike thus, by your definition, making him incompetent.

 

[4F]

22 pages talking about sh*t bikes, the worlds gone mad.

 

[apollo179]

He needed additional tools and then only just managed to make it ridable. You state that "Incompetent assembly is going to result in problems regardless of the inherant quality of the bike." If the expert hand no access to additional tools he would have failed to assemble the bike thus, by your definition, making him incompetent.

I dont recall seeing if the expert had other tools but i see your point and agree that by my definition if it is impossible to properly assemble with the accompanying tools then anyone trying would be incompetent.
This would be an inadequate tool problem as opposed to an inherant bike quality problem (although as i have previously said the bikes may very well be complete rubbish)

 

[Cubist]

This programme was forwarded as substatiation to tesco / asda bikes being poor quality.
I was making the point that it dosnt reflect on the quality of the bikes , so much as the ability of the people assembling them.
Incompetent assembly is going to result in problems regardless of the inherant quality of the bike.

OK, I'll try and make it clear.

1. The programme is looking at the marketing of flat pack bikes.

2. Flat pack bikes are bought by inexperienced people with no knowledge and no special tools.

3. Ordinary inexperienced people tried to build them with the tools in the box. They failed.

At this point we can conclude that the bikes should not be sold to these people because they are being misled into believing the bikes will be safe and ridable without the intervention of more experienced, better equipped cycle mechanics. This is exploitative and irresponsible on the part of the vendors.

4. An experienced and well-equipped cycle mechanic completes the assembly of the bikes.

5. In doing so he has to repair buckled wheels and bent V-Brakes/noodles. (these should fit into anybody's definition of shoddy by the way)

6. He also concludes that, from an experienced person's point of view, the quality of the components means that they will not work well for long anyway.

At this point we can conclude that even when assembled by an expert the bikes are of shoddy quality.

This is what Angel, Summerdays, I, and others have pointed out ad nauseam. It's not the assembly that's at fault. The bikes are poor quality to start with. Add in the flatpack factor and the supermarkets are being even more irresponsible by conning people into thinking these things will work if assembled by the average Joe Soap in the kitchen.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

OK, I'll try and make it clear.

1. The programme is looking at the marketing of flat pack bikes.

2. Flat pack bikes are bought by inexperienced people with no knowledge and no special tools.

3. Ordinary inexperienced people tried to build them with the tools in the box. They failed.

At this point we can conclude that the bikes should not be sold to these people because they are being misled into believing the bikes will be safe and ridable without the intervention of more experienced, better equipped cycle mechanics. This is exploitative and irresponsible on the part of the vendors.

4. An experienced and well-equipped cycle mechanic completes the assembly of the bikes.

5. In doing so he has to repair buckled wheels and bent V-Brakes/noodles. (these should fit into anybody's definition of shoddy by the way)

6. He also concludes that, from an experienced person's point of view, the quality of the components means that they will not work well for long anyway.

At this point we can conclude that even when assembled by an expert the bikes are of shoddy quality.

This is what Angel, Summerdays, I, and others have pointed out ad nauseam. It's not the assembly that's at fault. The bikes are poor quality to start with. Add in the flatpack factor and the supermarkets are being even more irresponsible by conning people into thinking these things will work if assembled by the average Joe Soap in the kitchen.

Cubist you have far more patience than I

 

[apollo179]

OK, I'll try and make it clear.

1. The programme is looking at the marketing of flat pack bikes.

2. Flat pack bikes are bought by inexperienced people with no knowledge and no special tools.

3. Ordinary inexperienced people tried to build them with the tools in the box. They failed.

At this point we can conclude that the bikes should not be sold to these people because they are being misled into believing the bikes will be safe and ridable without the intervention of more experienced, better equipped cycle mechanics. This is exploitative and irresponsible on the part of the vendors.

4. An experienced and well-equipped cycle mechanic completes the assembly of the bikes.

5. In doing so he has to repair buckled wheels and bent V-Brakes/noodles. (these should fit into anybody's definition of shoddy by the way)

6. He also concludes that, from an experienced person's point of view, the quality of the components means that they will not work well for long anyway.

At this point we can conclude that even when assembled by an expert the bikes are of shoddy quality.

This is what Angel, Summerdays, I, and others have pointed out ad nauseam. It's not the assembly that's at fault. The bikes are poor quality to start with. Add in the flatpack factor and the supermarkets are being even more irresponsible by conning people into thinking these things will work if assembled by the average Joe Soap in the kitchen.

However at the risk of further inflaming the masses i would point out that the perils of flat pack would still exist even if the bike was a high quality bike.
It is anti flat pack bikes - the question of the quality of the bikes (properly assembled) themselves is less clear cut .
Assembly is clearly an issue. Their are also obviously legitimate reservations re bike quality - you get what you pay for.
Supermarkets are irresponsible - a case could be made. But i think some are being a bit precious over the whole thing. Joe public buys a cheap bike . bolts it together as best he can and gets whatever use out of it he can. Joe public needs to take some responsibilty - no-ones forcing him to buy the stuff. To be honest i dont really have a problem with tesco / asda over this so long as the bikes pass the nessecary standards.

 

[abo]

OK, I'll try and make it clear.

1. The programme is looking at the marketing of flat pack bikes.

2. Flat pack bikes are bought by inexperienced people with no knowledge and no special tools.

3. Ordinary inexperienced people tried to build them with the tools in the box. They failed.

At this point we can conclude that the bikes should not be sold to these people because they are being misled into believing the bikes will be safe and ridable without the intervention of more experienced, better equipped cycle mechanics. This is exploitative and irresponsible on the part of the vendors.

4. An experienced and well-equipped cycle mechanic completes the assembly of the bikes.

5. In doing so he has to repair buckled wheels and bent V-Brakes/noodles. (these should fit into anybody's definition of shoddy by the way)

6. He also concludes that, from an experienced person's point of view, the quality of the components means that they will not work well for long anyway.

At this point we can conclude that even when assembled by an expert the bikes are of shoddy quality.

This is what Angel, Summerdays, I, and others have pointed out ad nauseam. It's not the assembly that's at fault. The bikes are poor quality to start with. Add in the flatpack factor and the supermarkets are being even more irresponsible by conning people into thinking these things will work if assembled by the average Joe Soap in the kitchen.

amen

 

[Angelfishsolo]

However at the risk of further inflaming the masses i would point out that the perils of flat pack would still exist even if the bike was a high quality bike.
It is anti flat pack bikes - the question of the quality of the bikes (properly assembled) themselves is less clear cut .
Assembly is clearly an issue. Their are also obviously legitimate reservations re bike quality - you get what you pay for.
Supermarkets are irresponsible - a case could be made. But i think some are being a bit precious over the whole thing. Joe public buys a cheap bike . bolts it together as best he can and gets whatever use out of it he can. Joe public needs to take some responsibilty - no-ones forcing him to buy the stuff. To be honest i dont really have a problem with tesco / asda over this so long as the bikes pass the nessecary standards.

My Cube Reaction came flat packed. It had all the necessary tools (ie allan keys) and an incredibly detailed set of instructions. Pretty much one set for each adjustable component. I had never assembled a flat packed bike before but after half any hour (I spend £1.4K so I was being very careful) the bike was perfect.

 

[apollo179]

My Cube Reaction came flat packed. It had all the necessary tools (ie allan keys) and an incredibly detailed set of instructions. Pretty much one set for each adjustable component. I had never assembled a flat packed bike before but after half any hour (I spend £1.4K so I was being very careful) the bike was perfect.

So flat pack is ok for those capable to assemble but not for those not competent.
If joe public is attracted by the idea of a flat pack bike and all the fun of bolting it together what do you do ?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So flat pack is ok for those capable to assemble but not for those not competent.
If joe public is attracted by the idea of a flat pack bike and all the fun of bolting it together what do you do ?

You ensure that the kit is supplied with adequate tools and instructions and that it is engineered to a quality that allows the bike to be assembled correctly.

 

[Cubist]

The converse is of course also true. How many times do we read on these hallowed pages that poster X or Poster Z would not go near a Apollo/Carrera/Voodoo/Boardman because they are assembled by incompetent oafs etc etc etc????.

I once read one exasperated Boardman owner trying to convince a Halfords decrier that the people assembling the bikes have very little input into the sourcing of components, or the R&D that went into the Team Carbon........


Take the builder out of the equation and then look at the quality of the product. The Watchdog Programme did that as well as examining the ease of assembly etc etc.

 

[apollo179]

You ensure that the kit is supplied with adequate tools and instructions and that it is engineered to a quality that allows the bike to be assembled correctly.

In a perfect would what you say would be done but hallo this is the real world.
Joe public could buy a quality bike for £200 (or whatever it costs) if that was what he wanted to do but if he chooses to buy a cheap Flatpack bike from tesco / asda - what do you do. My point is that he does have that choice and chooses to buy the cheap rubbish.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

In a perfect would what you say would be done but hallo this is the real world.
Joe public could buy a quality bike for £200 (or whatever it costs) if that was what he wanted to do but if he chooses to buy a cheap Flatpack bike from tesco / asda - what do you do. My point is that he does have that choice and chooses to buy the cheap rubbish.

He should not be sold rubbish though. To the layperson a £70 bike from Tesco or Asda will function in the same way as a £400 pound bike from his LBS. If I bought a cheep car I would still expect it to last longer than a month and would expect a level of engineering competency put into the components. You do not get that with the Tesco and Asda bikes. If they were cars they would not be allowed to be sold.