brake upgrade: long drop dual pivot or centre pull conversion?

[Scilly Suffolk]

I've got a low end 1989 Peugeot which does service as my Audax/wet weather/training bike.

It currently has the stock single pivot Weinmann Alpha calipers, which I would like to improve on.

The cartridges sit at the top of the range of adjustment and I have measured the drop to 65mm.

There doesn't seem to be much choice in dual pivot calipers: Spa have Tektro and Alhonga calipers, which I'm sure are fine, but I would prefer to keep the bike all European (it started out as a Shimano-free thing and got out of hand).

Another possibility is converting to centre pull brakes.

So my questions are:
- does anyone know of any European dual pivot long drop calipers?
- what are the pitfalls of converting to centre pulls?
- what are good centre pulls to look out for and where can I get the cable guides/stops?

Many thanks.

 

[black'n'yellow]

Miche make a long-drop dual pivot caliper - I have a set on my winter bike. Swap out the pads though - they're rubbish.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

So my questions are:
- does anyone know of any European dual pivot long drop calipers?
- what are the pitfalls of converting to centre pulls?
- what are good centre pulls to look out for and where can I get the cable guides/stops?

Many thanks.

I have a pair of Ambrosio long drop dual pivot. Come in alloy or carbon finish, they look and work fine. Is your 65mm centre of bolt to centre of pads? If you are concerned about reach let me know and I will go measure mine.

For centrepulls you will need hangers attached onto the headset/stem/frame. Also I am using the Ambrosio because my Mafac 2000 Racer centrepulls couldn't reach after a change from 27" to 700c - so you will have to watch out for drop too.

Hangers/cable guides etc. depend on your stem/frame spec/feature. You should have no problem sourcing them since people need them for modern cantis.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Thanks, but both the Miche and the Ambrosio have a maximum drop of 57mm. From what I've read, what is now considered "long drop/reach", used to be considered "normal" and what was "long" (ie what I have) has become almost extinct.

I'm measuring from bolt centre to pad centre: is this the usual method or do some manufacturers use another?

Interesting point about your wheels, I wonder if the Pug was originally fitted with 27" (bearing in mind that cartridges are right at the top of the guide): during which period did the changeover occur?

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Thanks, but both the Miche and the Ambrosio have a maximum drop of 57mm. From what I've read, what is now considered "long drop/reach", used to be considered "normal" and what was "long" (ie what I have) has become almost extinct.

I'm measuring from bolt centre to pad centre: is this the usual method or do some manufacturers use another?

Interesting point about your wheels, I wonder if the Pug was originally fitted with 27" (bearing in mind that cartridges are right at the top of the guide): during which period did the changeover occur?

I measured my Ambrosio. Despite the spec they happen to be at 65mm centre to centre.

If the existing cartridges are at the top of the guide assuming the brakes are original surely it meant original wheels, if any, could only have been smaller? 27" are 4mm greater in radius compared to 700c. The change happened over a number of years round about the mid 80's.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Thanks for that.

Where are your cartridges: top, middle or bottom of the guides?

OK, so I've been confusing myself and my wheels...

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

Miche make a long-drop dual pivot caliper - I have a set on my winter bike. Swap out the pads though - they're rubbish.

Bearing in mind what RAFN found, I'd be grateful if you could measure the actual drop on your Miche calipers when you get the chance.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

On CTC someone advised that centre pulls were intended for 4:1 pull levers and I've just fitted some aero levers, which pretty much rules centre pulls out now.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

On CTC someone advised that centre pulls were intended for 4:1 pull levers and I've just fitted some aero levers, which pretty much rules centre pulls out now.

I don't believe that is correct. Traditional centrepulls and sidepulls are interchangeable. In those days both were common on drop bar road racers. Afaik the only difference between traditional aero and non-aero drop bar levers is the cable run.

My pads are at the bottom of the guides.

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

CTC thread.

Either way I've dropped the idea of fitting centre pulls now: in my ignorance I thought they performed similar to cantis; after all I am looking to improve my braking.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

CTC thread.

Either way I've dropped the idea of fitting centre pulls now: in my ignorance I thought they performed similar to cantis; after all I am looking to improve my braking.

I just read the CTC thread and I still don't see the issue. Jobst Brand wrote about the respective cable pull requirements of different brakes, and it is clear traditional centrepulls and sidepulls are no different. Aero levers have slightly higher MA than traditional, which would actually make it slightly more powerful, but imho not to be noticeably different. Unless you have V brake specific drop bar levers, it is inconceivable that your levers pull anything near 20mm of brake cable before hitting the bars.

 

[black'n'yellow]

Bearing in mind what RAFN found, I'd be grateful if you could measure the actual drop on your Miche calipers when you get the chance.

looks like mine could go down to about 63mm if needs be...that's only a rough measure though...

 

[Scilly Suffolk]

I just read the CTC thread and I still don't see the issue...

OK, noted. Thanks for taking the time to look at that.

looks like mine could go down to about 63mm if needs be...that's only a rough measure though...

Thanks for checking. For £20 they're worth a punt, even if a little filing is needed in the end.