Bradford Cycle Lane

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MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
My cousin is visiting from Oz, so I took him to Leeds for lunch today, via the cycle lane, saying nothing. Just after Thornbury roundabout, having nearly been taken out by woman in a Range Rover willing to risk killing us rather than delay her arrival at the Co-Op by 2 seconds, he'd had enough and pleaded to ride on the Ring Road as it would be a lot safer!

If you are setting off from Bradford, it's crazy, who wants a mile long uphill slog where you have to keep stopping to press a button and wait to be able to re-join the lane on the other side of the road? You have junctions where there is a green cycle light, so you cross, but an easily missed red light for the second leg of the crossing!

IMO it's a pile of catmuck, it makes the journey take longer and is far more dangerous.
 

atbman

Veteran
You mean Church Bank, (City Cathedral)! Church Hill is Baildon, I'm trusting my A-Z on this one.
Oops - misremembered. - confusion with church Hill (poss. Churchhill pub on ...Bank
 

NorthernDave

Never used Über Member
Well, according to the YEP, the Bradford - Leeds City Centre section is now officially 'open'. http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....ound-leeds-to-bradford-route-a-ride-1-7991428

Amusingly, the article (actually more of a press release cut and pasted onto the website) states "The remaining Seacroft to Leeds section of the route is due to open next month."
Does it really? Because this section was due to open last year. Then "March 2016", then "Spring 2016", then (as recently as last week) "June 2016" and now the official opening date is 18th July.
They still have barely started at the Shaftesbury lights, although it looks like they've realised that they have nowhere to put it on the outbound side and have sprayed what looks worryingly like a 1m wide cycle lane onto the existing carriageway through the lights. And given the glacial pace of the works I'll be very surprised if the inbound section between Selby Rd and the Shaftesbury lights is finished in under 3 weeks...
Finally, let's not forget that on the "completed" sections between Leeds and Seacroft many of the junctions still haven't been marked out leaving it a dangerous free for all.
 

NorthernDave

Never used Über Member

It's not a bad article, but the cycling journalist makes a school boy error in stating that cyclists must use the cycle path. Putting a blatant error like that in print will only make some believe it is fact.
At least he's been corrected in the reader comments below.

One final point - I doubt many cyclists will agree with his comment that the route from the city centre to Stanningley is "mainly flat"! :rolleyes:
 
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"On Saturday 9th July we [Leeds Cycling Campaign] will be joined by representatives of the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain including Mark of As Easy As Riding A Bike fame.

We will be riding along the full length of CS1 (Leeds - Bradford) taking photos, measurements, and generally auditing the route. We will be highlighting the good bits, but also highlighting the bits that need to be altered. This will form the basis of our recommendations for improvements to the route ...." more here
 

classic33

Leg End Member
"On Saturday 9th July we [Leeds Cycling Campaign] will be joined by representatives of the Cycling Embassy of Great Britain including Mark of As Easy As Riding A Bike fame.

We will be riding along the full length of CS1 (Leeds - Bradford) taking photos, measurements, and generally auditing the route. We will be highlighting the good bits, but also highlighting the bits that need to be altered. This will form the basis of our recommendations for improvements to the route ...." more here
Guess there'll be no parking in any section on the day then.
 

NorthernDave

Never used Über Member
I had to take the road bike in for fixing today, so used a short section of the CSH today between the Outer Ring Road and Foundry lane..
Now I'm sure that City Connect will tell you that this section "is not finished yet", but most of this section was completed months ago and hasn't seen a workman since. I'm also not trying to compete with the excellent article linked to earlier in the thread where this part of the route has been reviewed.
Please also bear in mind that my pics were taken at 10am(ish) on a Sunday morning - traffic levels on here during the working day are hugely different.

The first thing you notice is that there are no signs to differentiate between the adjacent footpath and the CSH. As a consequence most of the peds I encountered today were walking on the "wrong" bit of tarmac.
Off to a good start with no cars parked on the inbound section at the Barwick Rd shops. I'm still deeply uneasy about where the CSH crosses road junctions as you need to have owl like all round views to be sure that a car turning off the 40mph dual carriageway is going to give way.
Down the hill and you are aware of how narrow the CSH is. There is no room for a faster cyclist to pass a slow one. There are also quite a lot of ironworks, etc still in place, despite claims that they'd be moved:
IMG_20160710_101851567.jpg

The handlebars on my road bike show how narrow the CSH is here. Imagine this on a hybrid with flat bars? On the left you have a drop off kerb to the footpath, on the right a strip of grass verge then the dual carriageway.
Inbound you pass a petrol station and tyre centre - where as at other junctions it is at least marked giving cyclist priority there is nothing here. It's unclear why there is such inconsistency.
At the next junction (formerly the Melbourne Roundabout), the inbound side crosses Cross Gates Road using some old cycling insfrastructure (1990s?) from when the junction was previously remodeled. This is optimistically signed as a 'shared space', even though there is barely enough room for a cyclist to pass between the roadside barriers penning you in.
Over this road and the trees are overgrowing the cycle path meaning cyclists have to duck.
I then crossed over York Road to a section where work has yet to start and where frankly it's difficult to imagine where they are going to fit a seperate cycle lane in:
IMG_20160710_102224184.jpg

On the far side of the hedges in the mid distance, there is a bus stop, shops and parking spaces - it will be interesting to see how the CSH is shoe-horned in here.
Looking away from Leeds, there is a bit of elderly cycle infrastructure that I can't ever recall seeing a cyclist using, presumably on account of it's general uselessness, given that there is an on road cycle lane up to the lights for anyone heading up the A64?:
IMG_20160710_102219808_HDR.jpg

This short length of cycle path ends at the lights with no instructions on where to go next. Presumably not off the kerb at the end?

Anyway, bike dropped off, I decided to walk home back up the "outbound" side of the CSH/A64.
Immediately outside Killingbeck Police Station is a handy on ramp arrangement for cyclists coming up Foundry Lane onto the CSH outbound. This is a good piece of cycle friendly planning. It's a shame that almost immediately afterwards there is a traffic light in the cycle lane, and you can see the amount of debris gathering there too:
IMG_20160710_104344298_HDR~2.jpg

Round to the recently opened fire station and we have another lot of ambiguity over who has right of way on the access road (there are traffic controls on the 'emergency' lane out of the fire station, as you can probably just see):
IMG_20160710_104448492_HDR.jpg

The next junction is a rats nest of bits of tarmac going here there and everywhere, again lacking signs or directions as to who goes where. I couldn't really get a photo showing all it's ridiculousness due to the scale of it.
However, just past the junction the layout suggests that cycle path and the footpath have swapped sides, supported by signs indicating the the cycleway is now on the lower section on the left:
IMG_20160710_104704417_HDR~2.jpg

But at the next junction, all the markings indicate the opposite, that the cycle path was on the right hand side raised section after all!
IMG_20160710_104827043~2.jpg

Notice the bus stop in the above photo?
When we get there it's unclear where peds are intended to go. The layout suggests they can go to the bus stop, but that it's a dead end for them - the layout suggests (supported by the signs further on) that it's the cycle way only that continues up the hill. Or does the cycle way become a shared space beyond there?
IMG_20160710_104950500_HDR.jpg

Again, no signs to indicate what is correct which will only lead to confusion. At this point I was passed by a cyclist using the 40mph dual carriageway (as he was entitled to be).
Up to the top of the hill, past the shops with a sign for the cafe in the middle of the CSH and on to what is probably the worst junction on this section:
IMG_20160710_105420651.jpg

The CSH spits you out into the mouth of a busy junction, with traffic coming off the 40mph road across you from directly behind your shoulder and across a ghost island, through often queuing traffic waiting to join the main road and back into the CSH (behind the silver car).
There are no markings suggesting who has right of way and this junction has been like this for at least 6 months. Are drivers expected to spot the cycle path sign and anticipate that they should give way to cyclists crossing the mouth of the junction..? This really is an accident waiting to happen.

I really wanted the CSH to be something so much better than what we've been given. The real question is why is it so poor given the huge amount of money that has been spent on it?
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Some bus stops near Bradford have half that distance to cycle in. The worst thing is though, is the constant filtering of cyclists from the cycle path, right into areas where vehicles have priority. It's a stop start dangerous nonsense and it's faster for me to go with the flow of traffic on the road, safer too IMO.
 
Not sure where to start.

I rode with these guys yesterday. Several points to make.

1. Absolutely fascinating to "listen in"
- to people who know infrastructure inside out, and upside down;
- to people who had a hand in the decisions and consultations;
- to people who had a handle on the history.

2. The "western" section (Leeds-Bradford) was contracted out; the "eastern" section is being implemented by LCC resources (as and when they don't get callled off to do other jobs, like filling potholes for the Triathlon).

3. The "western" section has a pretty high level of consistency, in things like
- indicating priorities for the cycle track;
- use of green paint to show priorities;
- creative use of bi-directional cycle routes and efficient use of signals.
4. The "eastern" section, by comparison, is seriously inconconsistent. One wee repetitive example, on the eastern section. When the CSH crosses a road junction, cyclist priority is clear. But when CSH crosses an entrance to a business, hospital, or cemetery (:eek:), the kerbstones are laid in such a way as to suggest 4-wheeled-motorised priority.

5. Between Thornbury RAB and Bradford Cathedral, I am very seriously impressed.

6. Between Leeds and Thornbury? There are bits unfinished. There are bits best left alone. And there are ******* nightmares ("Mike's Carpets" junction heading west is murderous. And the Stanningley "shared space" experiment - **** me!).



Bottom line - the eastern section implemented by LCC is far below the standards of the western section. It's almost as if the council work gangs and their immediate supervisors took it upon themselves to decide that the plans were wrong. A damned shame - becaise their incompetence will have to be rectified.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
5. Between Thornbury RAB and Bradford Cathedral, I am very seriously impressed.

Really? That section is a long linear uphill slog. The last thing you want to do is to stop, press a button and wait to re-join the cycle path, which is now on other side of the road. How many times do you have to do that between the Cathedral and Thornbury? I'll take the road............
 

NorthernDave

Never used Über Member
Some bus stops near Bradford have half that distance to cycle in. The worst thing is though, is the constant filtering of cyclists from the cycle path, right into areas where vehicles have priority. It's a stop start dangerous nonsense and it's faster for me to go with the flow of traffic on the road, safer too IMO.

There are ridiculously narrow sections around bus stops further down York Rd, but none as far up as the section I rode. That said, they still have to shoehorn something in between Asda and the police station (in both directions)..
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
The welcome break is to stop, press a button and catch my breath!

Point taken. :smile: But...........a commuter (me) doesn't want that, it is the last thing he wants, to have to stop, press a "wait" button, wait for traffic to stop, all so that he can cross the road to carry on in the same direction he was already going in! Uphill or downhill, its very annoying and time consuming, I think that you have to do this 5 or 6 times in what? 1.2 miles?

Leisure cyclists are not going to use it anyway, it's a dud.:sad:
 
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