Bladed spoke twisting during rides

[mangid]

One of the bladed spokes on my rear Mavic Ellipse is twisting thru 45degrees during rides. I've managed to restore perfection a couple of times now by releasing the tension and then trying to tighten, but of course it's hard to tighten too much as it wants to twist, so is probably not tensioned enough at the moment? The wheel is still true fortunately.

I've just ordered a better quality spoke key and a gizmo for holding the spoke in place whilst tightening. Anything I should watch out for?

I've always tried to stay away from playing with the wheels, previous Ellipses where good for 50K+.

Thanks in advance

 

[raleighnut]

You have to relieve the twist/torsion after tensioning if not vibration on the road will do this.

 

[mangid]

You have to relieve the twist/torsion after tensioning if not vibration on the road will do this.

Sounds good, what does that entail ;-)

Slacken off so it lies in the right plane, use tool to keep it in place and tigthen up, but how do I relieve the twist/torsion at that point ?

Thanks !

 

[raleighnut]

By turning the nipple back 1/8 of a turn after tensioning each spoke, without loosening the tension.
The spoke may be damaged though and need replacing if it continues to return to the 45 degree twist over time.

 

[zacklaws]

I have a feeling that it is a Mavic thing, I have some Mavic Aksiums, and the spokes in the front are always twisting round. I took the wheel back into the shop eventually and they told me it is common with Aksiums but they will bed in eventually and stop twisting, but some Aksiums, they never bed in and the only cure is a wheel replacement. Its alarming whilst riding when the spoke holding the computer magnet turns and starts hitting the sensor with a constant banging.

I also have some Mavic Kysyrium Equipe and I noticed last week some of the spokes had twisted so their broadside on now.

I read somwhere that the root cause of the problem is the nipple at the hub end does not fit into a housing which holds it fixed in place and because of this it is free to rotate,

 

[HLaB]

Mavic have a tool (just a bit of plastic really) to hold the blade to stop it twisting when you tighten the nipple. Lol you've ordered it should have read properly :-D

 

[Globalti]

Mavic also give you a spoke key made from plastic and once your wheels have done a few miles the nipples will bond to the spoke threads and won't turn, meaning that you ruin the plastic key. My neighbour knows this thanks to his GF's neglected bike but happily my Ksyriums have remained as true as the day I bought them from this forum so I haven't needed to adjust the spoke tension.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Spokes twist because there is residual torsion in them. This is torsion that is just not strong enough to twist the spokes when the wheel is doing no work, but when the wheel compresses and the spoke loses some tension, comes into play and turns the spoke. The Axium spoke and nipple is not like a standard spoke and nipple but one integrated unit. The way to get rid of residual torsion is to oil the spoke/nipple interface before building the wheel and then once the desired tension is achieved, wiggle the spoke in the nipple with a twisting motion, decreasing in amplitude, until you can't go smaller with the movement. Repeated big movements will not solve the problem. If you don't have the required spoke holder gadget, make one by sawing a slot in a piece of dowel or preferably a piece of plastic. The dowel splits easily but if you have a longish piece you just keeping on making another tool until the job is done.

And finally, don't be scared to work on spokes. Just work methodically and limit fiddling to one place at a time until you are familiar with the process. Rule no 1 of wheel truing: Spokes will never tighten themselves, only loosen themselves, therefore you always work on a wobble by tightening a spoke, not loosening one.