Bikeability

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Nice one - found these online - maybe worth getting some printed onto card for handing out to errant car drivers and errant cyclists alike...
View attachment 378683
Hmm - maybe needs a couple of additions? Like one for cyclists NOT having to ferking ride in the ferking gutter; and one for cyclists hanging their hand out to the right is NOT a ferking request for a ferking manicure! These may need a little editing :evil::evil::evil:
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The documents have been hived off as they are delivery documents intended for use by instructors.
But is there anything better for parents wanting to teach their children? Putting that behind the "beware of the leopard" door seems backwards.
 

Andy_R

Hard of hearing..I said Herd of Herring..oh FFS..
Location
County Durham
But is there anything better for parents wanting to teach their children? Putting that behind the "beware of the leopard" door seems backwards.
Not necessarily...there is the danger that some parents might try to use the delivery documents without understanding them. Bear in mind that new instructors are given the delivery documents with the caveat that these are not a bible, but a set of guidelines based on the ideal situation. As an instructor trainer, I monitor and mentor new and experienced existing instructors and help them interpret the delivery documents based on their daily experiences. Parents won't have that back-up. In a live traffic situation that can become unsafe very rapidly.

There is also scope for "My Dad says....." if we give the delivery documents to parents, as their interpretation may not match National Standard
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Not necessarily...there is the danger that some parents might try to use the delivery documents without understanding them. Bear in mind that new instructors are given the delivery documents with the caveat that these are not a bible, but a set of guidelines based on the ideal situation. As an instructor trainer, I monitor and mentor new and experienced existing instructors and help them interpret the delivery documents based on their daily experiences. Parents won't have that back-up. In a live traffic situation that can become unsafe very rapidly.
Parents like the op are riding with their children in live traffic anyway, so it's unlikely to make matters worse!

There is also scope for "My Dad says....." if we give the delivery documents to parents, as their interpretation may not match National Standard
:laugh: It seems that some instructors' interpretations may not be matching the National Standard anyway, so that doesn't seem like a good reason for not producing a Bikeability for Parents guide.
 

Andrew_P

In between here and there
You can get free one on one bikeabilty normally. Much better than the group. It helped my daughter a little bit when she was 13 with road signs and where to position herself for turning. I found surprisingly difficult to teach as at my age so much is habit from driving and cycling you tend to forget! I will also say with all my (3) daughters I have found riding with them quite stressful at first, they all wanted to come in to work with me, which is a 30 mile return Journey on pretty busy roads. I got used to it in the end, they loved it. The middle one not so much. But youngest was doing it fairly regular when she was 13 and eldest first one 12. Its well worth persevering if you can embed cycling without overdoing it. my eldest takes her (my old Boardman CX) bike where ever she is living and she is 20 the youngest was ultra competitive with me right from the outset and would still beat her oldest sister. The middle one lost interest unfortunately.
 
OP
OP
EasyPeez

EasyPeez

Veteran
Not to put your child down further, but this is the first time I've heard of a child failing.
Have you contacted the school or instructors to ask why she failed? without knowing what she did wrong it's difficult to help her move past it.
Locally they do bikeability in the last year of primary and then again in the first year of secondary, if they want, depending on her age she may get another go.

I don't think it's termed 'failing' by the scheme or the instructors (though obviously the children who don't achieve the level see it as such). All but one or two of her class achieved the L1, around 50-60% (from what I can gather) achieved the L2. So based on this it's not uncommon for children to not achieve L2. We have now received a written report from the instructor advising what elements she attained successfully and why certain others weren't attained. Her not achieving the L2 was down to incorrect road positioning on a couple of occasions and looking behind while signalling (apparently looking behind with one hand off the bars is a no-no, though I do it often in traffic). So at least now we know and can work on these areas. Just wish I'd have known all the criteria in advance of the course.

She's in Y5. Think that's the only year it's offered by our local authority but I'll check.
 
OP
OP
EasyPeez

EasyPeez

Veteran
What concerns me though, is that the instructor didn't allow your daughter to achieve level 2 for something that is not in the National Standard. There is nothing in the National Standard about having both hands on the handlebar when looking behind, merely that the trainee has to be able to maintain a straight line whilst looking behind. Indeed some people have to take a hand off the bars to look behind due to restricted neck/back movement. The instructor in this case was not delivering level 2 training to the National Standard.
I was surprised about her being pulled up on this, and even more so now you say it's not part of the National Standard. I'd better check again when I get home. The report was quite lengthy and detailed (to the instructor's credit) so it may be that I am confusing what my daughter has told me with what the instructor has actually written.

Find out from your daughter's school who the training provider is and make a complaint to Steer Davies Gleave
As above, I'd better check I've got my facts right first. And even if I have, I'm not inclined to make a formal complaint - partly because there were several factors that led to my daughter not achieving L2, so it's not like it all hinged on this issue, and partly because I don't want to exacerbate the whole 'failed Bikeability' thing in my daughter's mind. I'm keen to subtly use the book @Drago recommended and the Bikeability criteria to help her myself now, so that she is moving forward positively rather than dwelling on something she sees as a negative.

there is the danger that some parents might try to use the delivery documents without understanding them

There is also scope for "My Dad says....." if we give the delivery documents to parents, as their interpretation may not match National Standard
I can appreciate and relate to these points....but surely the first one could be seen as another argument in favour of producing an easy-to-understand and implement pre-course booklet?

Parents like the op are riding with their children in live traffic anyway, so it's unlikely to make matters worse!
And overall surely this is the key issue? And again, if a pre-course booklet could be produced which summarised and simplified the key learning objectives, surely this would me more likely to support successful learning (just as we parents are trusted to do throughout the academic year when supporting children with homework and extra-curricular projects) rather than be a barrier to it?

You can get free one on one bikeabilty normally. Much better than the group.
Thanks, I was not aware of this. I'll speak to someone at the local authority about it. My coincidence the guy in charge of sustainable transport has left me a message at work about something completely unrelated so I'll mention it to him when I call him back.

But youngest was doing it fairly regular when she was 13 and eldest first one 12. Its well worth persevering if you can embed cycling without overdoing it. my eldest takes her (my old Boardman CX) bike where ever she is living and she is 20 the youngest was ultra competitive with me right from the outset and would still beat her oldest sister. The middle one lost interest unfortunately.

I rarely feel the urge to quote Meatloaf, but as he says, "2 out of 3 ain't bad". Glad to hear your experience of introducing your daughters to cycling was ultimately rewarding and successful. Persevering is certainly something I intend to do; I'm very mindful of keeping the whole thing fun, otherwise what's the point?

Cheers.
 

Andrew_P

In between here and there
Thanks, I was not aware of this. I'll speak to someone at the local authority about it. My coincidence the guy in charge of sustainable transport has left me a message at work about something completely unrelated so I'll mention it to him when I call him back.

I rarely feel the urge to quote Meatloaf, but as he says, "2 out of 3 ain't bad". Glad to hear your experience of introducing your daughters to cycling was ultimately rewarding and successful. Persevering is certainly something I intend to do; I'm very mindful of keeping the whole thing fun, otherwise what's the point?

Cheers.
I put my Council in to this and picked one, https://bikeability.org.uk/find-a-course-provider/ it was all arranged in less than a week and she completed it over 3 1.5 hour Saturday lessons, as she was under 18 I had to come along! MY eldest I forced to do it before I would let her taken my Boardman to live in North West London and commute to Oxford Street on her bike when she was 18 and I think she learnt a few things, again things I probably forgot to teach her. Plus Deliveroo etc Gulp

Some of my best "kid" memories are of the bike rides, places we have gone on our bikes getting lost in France etc and the scenery things you never see by car. not sure if that makes me a crap or good parent! I did mean to say, the thing I found difficult about live training for me was communicating on the road, either with them behind or in front it was difficult.
 
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Scoop940

Senior Member
Couple of my kids did the bikeability a while back, excuse for some time out of class, next time out with them was a shock and I told them to unlearn some of the things they had been told. Not sure I'll suggest my youngest lad does it, they might not take to well to him doing skids and jumping off every kerb he sees.

What's most important is what you think of their riding as a parent, teach them the stuff to stay safe without looking uncool near their mates and they will likely continue to do it.
 

Scoop940

Senior Member
Out of interest, what did you think they should unlean? Bikeability wasn't around for mine at primary school age, so I don't know.

There were a few things but the road positioning when wanting to turn left out of a T Junction was the worst as I recall. Centre line to turn left, I don't think so.
 

Andrew_P

In between here and there
There were a few things but the road positioning when wanting to turn left out of a T Junction was the worst as I recall. Centre line to turn left, I don't think so.
Stops a left hook or cutting corner off with you in it? Not saying I do it all the time. My experience and I was with my Daughter for it is that they do teach sensible but what some might see as aggressive positioning. The only thing I told my Daughter was that although it is your right to do as they suggest there are times where the driver won't let you don't assume they are going to and don't try and have a war over who is right, if in doubt giveaway

It is incredibly difficult to teach on a bike in a live busy road just communication is difficult, there is little point in being two abreast as you will already be controlling the road to a certain extent. I did a few hours on quiet roads but it is again hard to explain what a live busy road will be like. Then if you have them behind you have to teach safe drafting and be very careful of braking sudden changes etc and cannot communicate easily. Then in front you are leaving them to deal with junctions as communication is difficult. I suppose my own limitation on not being a good teacher come in to play as well. Concentrating on keeping them and myself safe and giving instructions and why was bloody hard!

For all its limitations a stranger trained in instruction I felt my Daughter did benefit for it, especially as they are used to being Schooled. I thought it was nicely structured. I cannot see much benefit to group School led training to be honest and it feels like it is tick boxing
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
There were a few things but the road positioning when wanting to turn left out of a T Junction was the worst as I recall. Centre line to turn left, I don't think so.

Umm, as an adult I have learned from near misses that centre line is absolutely the right position to turn left. If you stay left to turn left, some clown (well the word begins with c anyway) will turn left with you giving you about 18" of space whilst turning
 
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