Better design of HGVs is key to improving safety for cyclists

[Drago]

Ah, so it's not the fault of people hiring stupid drivers, now it's the victims' collective responsibility that they're getting run over because they collectively buy too much?

It's both. Consumers create the extent of the problem, Neanderthal drivers on minimum wage with no incentive to drive with any degree of skill apply the problem to those around them. Being a pedant in response doesn't alter those facts.

I never claimed was exclusively one other the other as the cause, although removing one or the other from the equation breaks the cycle and solves the problem.

 

[mjr]

I've been a HGV class 1 driver for most of my working life..... cyclists consistently rode on the inside of my trailer when i'm stationary at traffic lights or anywhere where i have to stop in traffic. They've even rode along my nearside when i'm indicating left.
I've had them riding up my inside where there is so little room between my truck and the curb, these cyclists have one foot on the curb to get by.
The problem with a lot of cyclists, is that they have this absolute aversion to having to stop, they want to keep moving at all costs. These costs are often their life.

Sure, but probably even more cyclists consistently didn't ride on the inside and you don't mention those, same as I didn't mention all the drivers who didn't try to left-hook me. There's a lot of fools about and there's more of everything on London's streets.

I notice that many motorists also have this absolute aversion to having to stop, despite it not costing them energy to get moving again like it does cyclists (each extra stop is like riding another 100m). Motorists also want to keep moving at all costs, barging forwards, attempting overtakes where there's not space (like on the approach to junctions) and driving through red lights. These costs are too often other people's lives.

 

[Smudge]

You get bad drivers of trucks and you get bad riders of cycles.
But one thing is certain, in a collision between a truck and a cyclist, a cyclists will always come off worse. The cyclist being in the right means nothing when they're under the wheels of a 42 ton artic.
When i'm riding my bikes, i keep well out of the way of trucks and dont put myself in a hazardous position.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

A lot of the recent issues in London have been with tipper trucks, resulting from the increased levels of construction, not delivery of worthless tat.

I have to say & it is a sweeping statement but the standard of driving of tippers does seem to be at the lower end of the spectrum, I was driving into Sheffield the other day & TBH I wasn't feeling to safe being along side a tipper & I was in the car, certainly wouldn't have wanted to be on a bike at the side.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

[QUOTE 5450072, member: 9609"]15 hour days on long haul must be a doddle to 15 hours in central london.[/QUOTE]
But that is only twice a week (although it may have changed, it's 10 years since I drove)

 

[Smudge]

I have to say & it is a sweeping statement but the standard of driving of tippers does seem to be at the lower end of the spectrum, I was driving into Sheffield the other day & TBH I wasn't feeling to safe being along side a tipper & I was in the car, certainly wouldn't have wanted to be on a bike at the side.

I've drove tippers many times..... and the issue with that work, especially for the 8 legger tippers, is that they almost all on load work. That is paid per load, whereas the smaller 4 & 6 wheel tippers get paid day rate.
Owners of 8 wheelers always want more loads out of their drivers and all the tipper companies are in competition with each other and cutting load rates. Its a vicious circle.

 

[mjr]

You get bad drivers of trucks and you get bad riders of cycles.
But one thing is certain, in a collision between a truck and a cyclist, a cyclists will always come off worse. The cyclist being in the right means nothing when they're under the wheels of a 42 ton artic.
When i'm riding my bikes, i keep well out of the way of trucks and dont put myself in a hazardous position.

Sure, me too, but I still get put in hazardous positions... and anyway, does someone cycling cluelessly really deserve a death sentence? I don't really see what's not to like about improving HGV design like this - even if you think those overtaking on the left side deserve what they get, this seems to make driving a bit easier.

 

[classic33]

That "unless they prove they have a safe system fitted" bit seems to be a bit of a hole in the idea: If you can only see via mirrors, and not directly, we won't let you drive in London ... unless you have a "safe system" fitted. Such as ... er ... mirrors?

Goes back to a promise made by Labour. Close quarter cameras and driver warning systems fitted to all HGV's.

It's been repackaged and presented under a new style/name.

 

[Smudge]

Sure, me too, but I still get put in hazardous positions... and anyway, does someone cycling cluelessly really deserve a death sentence? I don't really see what's not to like about improving HGV design like this - even if you think those overtaking on the left side deserve what they get, this seems to make driving a bit easier.

When i'm out cycling, i have far more issues with car drivers than i do trucks.... In fact i cant even remember ever having a close one with a truck. With cars, its almost a daily occurance.
So i dont have a problem with trucks when cycling at all..... But i understand them and how they are driven.

 

[classic33]

Slight diversion, but who's willing to try an alternate delivery method?

 

[mjr]

When i'm out cycling, i have far more issues with car drivers than i do trucks.... In fact i cant even remember ever having a close one with a truck. With cars, its almost a daily occurance.
So i dont have a problem with trucks when cycling at all..... But i understand them and how they are driven.

I rarely have a problem with trucks when cycling in Norfolk or Somerset (and in Norfolk, I ride between two HGV-heavy industrial estates twice on almost every trip), but I keep having problems with them in London and Cambridge. I think it might be a city problem.

 

[Smudge]

I rarely have a problem with trucks when cycling in Norfolk or Somerset (and in Norfolk, I ride between two HGV-heavy industrial estates twice on almost every trip), but I keep having problems with them in London and Cambridge. I think it might be a city problem.

Although i live in Somerset now..... I'm a Bristolian, so i've had decades on city living.
In fact i find it far easier riding my bikes & motorcycles there, because of all the bus lanes we can use.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Slight diversion, but who's willing to try an alternate delivery method?
View attachment 440042

My only comment is WTF is he driving/riding on the pavement

 

[byegad]

I don't live in 'that there lunnon', nor would I want to.

But I've seen fellow cyclist filter on the left side of lorries indicating a left turn at lights. Even without a barrier on the pavement this is asking for trouble.

Yes I've also seen lorry drivers make stupid/dangerous manoeuvres, but too many cyclists put themselves into danger.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Along with teaching cyclists that if they intentionally put themselves in a blindspot don't be surprised if the drivers doesn't see you

The problem there is that you end up with cyclists having to be almost as well qualified as car drivers with a test before you can use a bike, which makes cycling impossible for many people who need it: my kids for one. Some of my mentally disabled clients can't drive for various reasons, but they are still mobile because they can ride a bike along the many cycleways locally. If the local government had taken the attitude that we just have to train cyclists, they would have lost their mobility and independence.