Be prepared for an accident

[classic33]

My post was not so much about safety, but to protect you from lawyers that wont give you your just due in court.

In what state(s) is helmet a legal requirement?
If you've complied fully with the law, why can they use that against you.

 

[classic33]

Actually I was hit by a car, and knocked over side ways. I hit my head, but was spared any damage by my helmet. It was a low speed accident.

Was this on two wheels or three wheels. Recumbents tend to attract attention/get noticed on the road.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Actually I was hit by a car, and knocked over side ways. I hit my head, but was spared any damage by my helmet. It was a low speed accident.

Worst accident I have had - so far - on my bike was falling off at slow speed on wet leave over mud on a tight corner on a path

broke my arm

while it was still in plaster I got bored and was fiddling with my helmet

found a large dent in the back right side - padding badly crushed

I thin it saved me from a bad bang at the very least

I am pretty sure a lot of bike accidents are such that a helmet is no protection - it is not a load of use if a lorry runs over your legs

but it does help with some

and if I have one of them and wake up in a hospital bed with my head wrapped in bandages and my wife sitting by the side of my bed - as she has been for the last week wondering if I will ever wake - or what will be left if I do

Then I don;t want to be thinking "Maybe a helmet would have made it less bad"

 

[Alex321]

My post was not so much about safety, but to protect you from lawyers that wont give you your just due in court.

That is not as much an issue in the UK as it is in the US, and while we have members from all over the world, the majority here are in the UK.

 

[icowden]

Actually I was hit by a car, and knocked over side ways. I hit my head, but was spared any damage by my helmet. It was a low speed accident.

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that if you hadn't been wearing a helmet you wouldn't have hit your head, and people with medical training know nothing about head injuries anyway.

Apparently helmets are absolutely lethal regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

 

[markemark]

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that if you hadn't been wearing a helmet you wouldn't have hit your head, and people with medical training know nothing about head injuries anyway.

Apparently helmets are absolutely lethal regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Which clinical evidence is that? I read lots of anecdotal. But the clinical evidence of which you speak, please share.

 

[Binky]

All I'll say on this is I had a very low speed off which I basically fell off to one side due to issue with road and an oncoming tractor. Anyway, I hurt my hip which was blinking painful but I also smacked my head. Quite a dent in helmet so without one I suspect I'd have done myself some quite serious damage.

Personally I think wearing a helmet is a good idea but if you don't, carry on.

 

[matticus]

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that, and people with medical training know nothing about head injuries anyway.

Apparently helmets are absolutely lethal regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

You know what, you raise some interesting points there!

if you hadn't been wearing a helmet you wouldn't have hit your head

Well that would depend on the accident ... but yeah, it's clear that making your head bigger would make impacts more common. Good point!

people with medical training know nothing about head injuries anyway.

Hmmm .. there's a good chance they will be good at treating head injuries. (Some more than others - my experiences resulted in most time spent with dentists.) I suppose if they don't see how the injuries occur, then they won't know any more about the causes than the Average Joe. Possibly less if Average Joe has hit his head while out cycling!

Apparently helmets are absolutely lethal regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

This seems doubtful - citation?

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Worst accident I have had - so far - on my bike was falling off at slow speed on wet leave over mud on a tight corner on a path

broke my arm

while it was still in plaster I got bored and was fiddling with my helmet

found a large dent in the back right side - padding badly crushed

I thin it saved me from a bad bang at the very least

I am pretty sure a lot of bike accidents are such that a helmet is no protection - it is not a load of use if a lorry runs over your legs

but it does help with some

and if I have one of them and wake up in a hospital bed with my head wrapped in bandages and my wife sitting by the side of my bed - as she has been for the last week wondering if I will ever wake - or what will be left if I do

Then I don;t want to be thinking "Maybe a helmet would have made it less bad"

About 10 years ago I crashed at Manchester Velodrome at high speed. I had a full frontal head impact right onto the track surface. It split my giro helmet clean through in six places. I felt the helmet cushion and absorb all the impact and had no injuries, concussion or ill effects. That helmet saved my life, I wear one every single time I get on a bike as I know what the risks are.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that if you hadn't been wearing a helmet you wouldn't have hit your head, and people with medical training know nothing about head injuries anyway.

Apparently helmets are absolutely lethal regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

People who say things like that - and they do exist - are generally doing the old old thing of taking unlikely events, that can and have happened, but very very seldom, and stating their importance above all likelihood

I am sure there are people around who have had a bike accident where a serious injury - e.g. to their neck - caused by their helmet hitting the very edge of a wall when without the helmet they might have missed the wall totally
or only had a glancing blow

I actually had a minor near miss a few weeks ago when I was going under a canal bridge. I must have been a tiny bit closer to the wall than normal and my helmet hit a small lump of something on the ceiling
It quite startled me and I almost had an incident

without the helmet my head would have been below the lump

but the likelihood of that happening is so low as to be ignorable

 

[Andy in Germany]

In what state(s) is helmet a legal requirement?
If you've complied fully with the law, why can they use that against you.

German employers health insurers, who cover you at work and on the way to work (don't ask; like a lot of things in Germany it's useful, clever, and very, very dull) have been known to try and get out of paying for cyclists in accidents when they don't wear a helmet, and we're all issued one for test rides. I don't wear mine, not because I'm rebellious but because I'm not used to wearing one, so I generally forget.
I don't know if any of these cases came to anything, but mandatory helmet use isn't coming here any time soon.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Actually I was hit by a car, and knocked over side ways. I hit my head, but was spared any damage by my helmet. It was a low speed accident.

You may think you were, and maybe one day you'll be proven correct. Until that day, however, what you have is a story. An emotive story, and a personal story, but a story nonetheless, and not a basis for trying to persuade/instruct or even force people to follow your lead.

If ever it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that helmets protect people, (even though that's unlikely: modern cycle helmets have been sold for half a century and even the manufacturers don't claim they can prevent injuries beyond cuts and bruises), then I'll happily wear one.

Until then, I'll be the one in the Akubra waving as I pass...

 

[Profpointy]

People who say things like that - and they do exist - are generally doing the old old thing of taking unlikely events, that can and have happened, but very very seldom, and stating their importance above all likelihood

I am sure there are people around who have had a bike accident where a serious injury - e.g. to their neck - caused by their helmet hitting the very edge of a wall when without the helmet they might have missed the wall totally
or only had a glancing blow

I actually had a minor near miss a few weeks ago when I was going under a canal bridge. I must have been a tiny bit closer to the wall than normal and my helmet hit a small lump of something on the ceiling
It quite startled me and I almost had an incident

without the helmet my head would have been below the lump

but the likelihood of that happening is so low as to be ignorable

My bold above. To refute this last point, when you look at real world statistics, specifically those pertaining to before-and-after helmet compulsion in New South Wales and in Ontario, it genuinely appears that helmets don't, on average, help much if at all, maybe make the head injury rate a tiny bit worse if anything. I think we can quite readily accept that helmets do help some of the time, so given they don't seem to improve matters in the overall scheme of things it stands reason they must also make things worse on occasion.

If I turned your argument around I could assert they always make things worse because I am ignoring the times they actually help

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

My bold above. To refute this last point, when you look at real world statistics, specifically those pertaining to before-and-after helmet compulsion in New South Wales and in Ontario, it genuinely appears that helmets don't, on average, help much if at all, maybe make the head injury rate a tiny bit worse if anything. I think we can quite readily accept that helmets do help some of the time, so given they don't seem to improve matters in the overall scheme of things it stands reason they must also make things worse on occasion.

If I turned your argument around I could assert they always make things worse because I am ignoring the times they actually help

I don;t know the figures that you are referring to

However, when I have seen figures for Australia - i.e. NSW and not Ontario - then when helmets were made compulsory then the numebr of people cycling dropped significantly
I would presume the same would happen in Ontario

If the number of people cycling drops so much then the numbers get messed up
In particular I saw a study that said that when the numbers dropped the number of people wearing helmet due to using them for more risky types of cycling became a higher percentage

another point is that the more people riding bikes then the more drivers become used to looking out for them - hence the old "sorry mate didn;t see you" rate drops
which again messes with the numbers

As you can see I have also not quoted specific studies or stats - no no specifics but that is what I remember seeing

as with everything - things are always more complicated than first seems

 

[Profpointy]

I don;t know the figures that you are referring to

However, when I have seen figures for Australia - i.e. NSW and not Ontario - then when helmets were made compulsory then the numebr of people cycling dropped significantly
I would presume the same would happen in Ontario

If the number of people cycling drops so much then the numbers get messed up
In particular I saw a study that said that when the numbers dropped the number of people wearing helmet due to using them for more risky types of cycling became a higher percentage

another point is that the more people riding bikes then the more drivers become used to looking out for them - hence the old "sorry mate didn;t see you" rate drops
which again messes with the numbers

As you can see I have also not quoted specific studies or stats - no no specifics but that is what I remember seeing

as with everything - things are always more complicated than first seems

I have read the papers I think you are referring to and that is very much my recollection.

You do make, or at least imply, the confounding factor in that it is conceivable that helmets per se might individually be a "good thing" but compulsion increases the injury rate due who , and how many cycles and how they are treated by motorists if numbers are lower. Working out how much of this is the "confounding factors" alluded to vs helmets being harmful on occasion would be hard to quantify.

But all that said, if it's so hard to come up with a proper survey which overwhelmingly proves a benefit there genuinely can't be much in it.

To a degree I now make a point of not wearing one as it has been stated by some authorities that compulsion would be pursued after helmets become more widespread, so my refusal is a bit of a political act.

Even though my rational side believes the numbers that there's little benefit, psychologically I felt safer when I used to wear one (long before most people did).